如何成为一名政治家：两千年的功过是非

作者：文斯·凯布尔 (Vince Cable) 2022年12月6日

https://www.amazon.ca/How-Politician-2000-Years-Advice/dp/1529149657

“你为什么要当水手？政治中的风暴比你在海上遇到的还要猛烈。海盗、炮火、甲板上的鲜血。你会在政治中遇到这一切。”——大卫·劳合·乔治

“自毁前程的高手。”尼古拉斯·索姆斯谈鲍里斯·约翰逊，关于他转而投身脱欧运动

本书以政治生涯的轨迹为线索——从儿时的抱负和初次竞选，到在后排议员中摸爬滚打，再到步步高升，应对反对者，直面危机，最终功成身退——这本独特的文集汇集了过去两千年来最诙谐、最睿智、最辛辣的政治语录。文斯·凯布尔爵士的坦诚见解贯穿全书，《如何成为一名政治家》是一部经久不衰、妙趣横生的政治学教科书。

如何成为一名政治家：与文斯·凯布尔爵士的对话

伦敦政治经济学院公共政策学院 2022年11月29日

在本次活动中，文斯·凯布尔爵士将与安德烈斯·贝拉斯科教授探讨他的新书《如何成为一名政治家：两千年来的良莠不齐之言》。

“永远原谅你的敌人——但永远不要忘记他们的名字。”——约翰·肯尼迪

“你为什么要当水手？政治中的风暴比你在海上遇到的还要猛烈。海盗、炮火、甲板上的鲜血。你会在政治中遇到这一切。”——大卫·劳合·乔治

“自残大师，无人能及。”尼古拉斯·索姆斯谈鲍里斯·约翰逊，关于他转而支持英国脱欧

本书以政治家的人生轨迹为线索——从儿时的抱负和初次竞选，到在后排议员中摸爬滚打，再到步步高升，应对批评者，直面危机，最终功成身退——贯穿全书的还有文斯·凯布尔爵士的坦率见解。《如何成为一名政治家》汇集了过去两千年来最诙谐、最睿智、最尖锐的政治名言。 ___________________________________________________

演讲嘉宾：

文斯·凯布尔爵士，伦敦政治经济学院公共政策学院实践教授

主持人：

安德烈斯·贝拉斯科教授，伦敦政治经济学院公共政策学院院长

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

安德烈斯·贝拉斯科教授

大家晚上好，欢迎来到Zoom会议室。非常荣幸能够主持本次活动，我们有幸……哦，不太准确，他是我们的一员，呃，甚至连我都能主持……我们的朋友，也是公共政策学院的实践教授，文斯·凯布尔爵士。正如大家所知，我们将介绍并发布他的新书《如何成为一名政治家：两千年的好建议和坏建议》。在加入公共政策学院和其他民事法庭之前，他曾担任伦敦西南库金汉选区的议员长达20年，并且是……自由党的领导人。他是议会中的民主党人，也是联合内阁成员，因此他不仅拥有漫长的政治生涯，而且成就斐然、影响深远。很多政治学专业的学生，​​有的坦率承认，有的则不然，都在考虑从政，这着实令人着迷。嗯，我以前可能也算个政治家吧，我对这样的梦想充满热情。嗯，我相信文斯会详细介绍他的书，嗯，不过，让我先读两行书的开篇简介，让你们感受一下我们今天要讲的内容。从摇篮到坟墓，本书讲述了从童年时期展现出从政潜力的政治生涯，从当选到组建政府，从艰难的选举一路攀升到领导的巅峰，最终在世界舞台上占有一席之地，经历了种种错误、批评、羞辱和失败，最终彻底告别政坛。不过，我得补充一句，我不认为

无论如何，政治生涯是可以结束的。相信我，我尝试过。我

彻底失败了，所以我们将把发言权交给文斯·盖博

让他介绍一下这本书。然后我将行使主席特权，

问几个问题。当然，之后我们会开放讨论，既包括现场的听众，也包括通过Zoom参与的听众。在阿雷纳斯叫我之前，我补充一下，这是一个公共活动，我们还有很多其他的公共活动，我

就提一下，免得我忘了。其中一个是16号星期三下午5点关于全球贸易体系的

伦敦政治经济学院苏丹分校和上海联合举办的年度会议。17号星期四上午10点到下午2点，有一个关于智利社会契约和宪法的活动。23号星期三晚上6点半到8点，还有一个

你们都受邀参加的大型活动，我本来想说是“受邀”的，是年度会议。由SPP举办的讲座，我们的嘉宾是《经济学人》主编扎尼·明顿·佩罗斯，他将探讨一个大家可能感兴趣的小话题：自由主义的未来。嗯，我希望自由主义有未来，但我非常期待听到扎尼的发言。还有很多活动，我希望除了今晚的活动之外，还能在其中一场活动中见到大家。那么，废话不多说，现在轮到你了。非常感谢您写了这本书，也感谢您今晚把它带到我们面前。好的。

文斯·凯布尔爵士

谢谢安德斯。嗯，我想先简单介绍一下这本书。它不是一部重要的政治哲学著作，也不是一本重要的教科书。嗯，这本书有点戏谑，我写的是一部关于政治家本质的叙事作品。它融合了大量的引语，既是为了娱乐，也是为了学习。嗯，我将围绕这个主题展开讨论：信任，以及为什么政治家……由于地位如此低下，我的书以一段引言开篇，呃，引言里我正在与人交谈。

如果有年轻人说他想当政治家，我的回应是……（此处原文似乎有误，无法翻译）。政治涉及很多方面，包括背景等等。我想谈的核心是第六点，也就是成为候选人、代表、议员、部长所需的技能水平——如果你愿意的话，可以把它理解为一种不断升级的技能水平。还有，别忘了，退出政坛并不容易。不过在此之前，我想先放一些幻灯片，我觉得其中一些非常漂亮。我在下议院工作了20年，以前从没做过幻灯片。在下议院，你不会用PPT做演示，所以我非常依赖那边阿桑加尼奥斯的技能，他帮我做得非常出色。所以，如果你愿意，请感谢他而不是我。好了，幻灯片开始了。让我先从人们对我们的看法说起。我读本科的时候，有一本政治学教科书，其中一位作者是伯纳德·奎克。我不知道你们现在是否还在用，但确实有一本。政治家的名言警句到此结束，政治的艺术，这是民主运作的基本原理，然后是伯里克利对弃权者的讲话。所以基本上，因为你对政治不感兴趣，

并不意味着政治不会对你感兴趣。政治家们做的事情会影响到你。我认为英国脱欧公投就是一个绝佳的例子，它体现了选择性弃权的政治。

你知道，如果年轻人的投票率和老年人的投票率一样，结果可能就完全相反了。所以，政治就是参与。最后，我引用了格拉斯哥地区喜剧演员的一句话：任何表达过想成为政治家意愿的人都应该被终身禁止从政。我认为这非常符合公众的意愿。我之所以提到比利·康诺利，是因为他最初在格拉斯哥以喜剧演员的身份开始了他的职业生涯。

而我最初在格拉斯哥开始我的政治生涯，成为一名市议员，

帮助管理这座城市。二十多岁时，我们有过重叠，但

比利·康诺利的观点我认为这张图表完美地体现了出来。

嗯，这是一项在23个国家进行的调查。我的意思是，你可以理解为什么

在英国，很多人现在对竞争持相当怀疑的态度，但这涵盖了23个国家，从男性

西欧国家，南美，非洲，甚至中国，我不太确定中国政客的情况，但是

嗯，这是一项汇总的、大规模的在线调查，调查了你对不同职业的信任度。

结果相当可预测，在最顶端，你知道，医生、工程师、科学家、教师，甚至警察和军队，你知道，我们通常对他们以及普通公民都持积极的看法。

人们通常对他们的同胞持相当积极的态度，但然后你就会看到负面的一面。

一些非常可预测的包括银行家，也可能是记者、广告公司高管，但所有这些国家的政客都处于最底层。

总的来说，人们对政客的看法非常负面。

人们对做事的部长和不做事的部长之间有一些区别。那些为了选票而成长的政客，但即便如此，

它仍然处于历史的低谷，但在继续讨论原因之前，

嗯，这只是一个你可能想了解的东西——茄子信任度指标。

它反映了人们对政府的信任程度。当然，这不仅仅关乎

政客，政府也包括官僚机构。但它的排名是按国家划分的。

在某种程度上，这相当可预测。你会预期
威权国家，比如中国、沙特阿拉伯和阿联酋，排名会很高。我的意思是，人们不会通过抨击自己的政府来回答你的调查问卷。但是，嗯，无论如何，它们都相当高效。嗯，有点奇怪的是，印度排在最前面。
我的意思是，印度是一个很棒的民主国家，但相当腐败和动荡，但人们非常珍视它，信任它。

还有印度尼西亚，另一个民粹主义和动荡的民主国家。

俄罗斯排名垫底，这也许并不令人惊讶。我不明白为什么日本的排名这么低，我不知道。

我对日本了解很多，但一直觉得它是一个管理得相当好、相当诚实的地方。也许我错了，但我们知道关键在于要看看主要的

西方民主国家——美国、英国和许多欧洲国家——的处境。

它们在排名中非常靠后，大多数民众不信任他们的政府，

也不信任统治他们的政客。这就是我们

必须考虑政治生涯的背景。以上是一些原因。

政治的本质就是妥协。你知道，你参加选举，做出承诺。

我书里的所有引言都指向一个事实：只有相信的人才能演奏和承诺。

你知道，在现实世界中，当你进入政府时，你

要做出艰难的决定，你必须

退一步，你必须与你的利益相关者、反对派合作，而这张照片拍摄于

印度，嗯，在一群特别可疑的人的带领下

比哈尔邦，这个邦在印度以

政客素质低下而闻名，超过一半的邦议员

这个邦的人口相当于德国和法国的总和

我们的议员

你知道，他们参与了谋杀、强奸和绑架，但他们进入了议会以逃避起诉

所以这不是一个特别高尚的地方，但是，嗯，他们正在组建联盟

这是一种妥协的肮脏之处，政治的本质是

本质上就意味着要放弃你竞选时的承诺，然后我们

还有标准，这是派对门，你可能还记得鲍里斯·约翰逊和他的

同事们在下班后遵守新冠疫情限制喝酒

嗯，然后是民粹主义的犬儒主义，嗯，这有点黑暗唐纳德

特朗普和奈杰尔·法拉奇是这种政治方式的典型例子

嗯，我认为特朗普的例子体现了我们现在经常看到的一种现象，

我称之为富豪民粹主义，嗯，一个很好的定义是，
政治就是通过承诺保护穷人免受富人侵害，来获得穷人的选票和富人的金钱。

嗯，你知道，这是同时维护超级富豪和穷人的利益。

右边是我最近离任的首相的照片，

因为行动比说难，你知道，她在电视上进行了四个月的竞选活动，

你可能看过一些，她承诺如果成为保守党领袖和首相将会采取的所有措施，她试图将这些措施付诸实践，结果我们遭遇了经济崩溃。

你知道，行动比说难，当然，这使得政治更加分散。

嗯，我在书中讨论的是我称之为“牧师”和“水管工”之间的区别，

你知道，牧师，有些人非常擅长演讲，他们他们口才极佳，

他们很会说话，魅力非凡。我想奥巴马可能是

近年来我们遇到的最好的例子，但真正做事、推动事情进展的是那些“管道工”。

这很难，很多政客都不擅长。现代最著名的“管道工”可能是

美国的林登·约翰逊，他应该是一个极其令人不快的人。

他粗鲁无礼，但他推动立法，管理IT，

推动事情进展。我不确定英国有多少优秀的“管道工”，但那是在
政府里，比如迈克尔·戈夫，呃，一位内阁大臣。

你知道，他擅长解决问题。所有这些加在一起，你知道，无法兑现承诺，民众的愤世嫉俗，

妥协的肮脏，所有这些都导致

民众的愤世嫉俗和政治生涯的衰落，即使在相当成熟的民主国家也是如此。

让我回到你刚才说的那个问题。想知道如何成为一名政治家吗？我认为起点是出身背景很重要。

比如，美国的布什家族，他们出了两位总统，在此之前还有参议员和各行各业的人物。布什家族，你知道肯尼迪家族，还有更早的洛克菲勒家族。这种情况现在不太常见了，但你知道，政治世家依然存在。我们在印度就发现了这样的例子，比如甘地家族，我想现在已经传承了五代。这种情况确实存在。英国的情况不太常见，但我们曾经有一个伟大的政治世家，那就是丘吉尔家族。这个家族在2019年结束，当时丘吉尔家族的最后一位成员尼古拉斯·丘吉尔很快退出了议会。但同一家族的几代人仍然会从事政治活动。更重要的是教育。英国政治体系的一个特点是，我认为大约有7%的人口就读于私立学校。在上届议会中，我认为有27项技能。

其中一项技能是……精英中的精英

嗯，很多英国前首相都毕业于伊顿公学，包括最近的几位，比如鲍里斯·约翰逊和卡梅伦。除了精英学校，还有大学。英国议会中大学毕业生的比例非常非常高，超过80%的议员都毕业于大学。而且，牛津大学毕业生的比例也相当高。下次如果出现左翼政府，情况可能会有所不同，但这种情况很常见。

而且，随着职位的提升，这些现象会更加明显。我曾在内阁任职，当时我的65位同事都毕业于私立学校，其中大多数都上过牛津或剑桥。所以，精英现象非常普遍。它导致的结果之一是工人阶级的消失，英国政坛的工人阶级成员寥寥无几。我认为，其他西方民主国家的情况可能也是如此。

她们中很少有人从事过体力劳动。

20年前，你还能在工厂里见到矿工和工厂工人，现在

非常非常罕见。而且，我们现在有了更多女性担任总理。事实上，

在我成为国会议员时，女性总理非常罕见，只是极少数。我们仍然没有50位女性总理，但你知道，我们在欧洲和澳大利亚已经有了相当数量的女性总理。

政治背景的重要性在于拥有一个背景故事。我不知道是否有人认识这位女士，但她是安吉拉·雷纳。

她是英国工党副领袖，斯塔默的副手。

甚至在她开口之前，她就有一个精彩的背景故事。她15岁就辍学，
为了照顾患有精神疾病的母亲。她辍学时已经怀孕，
独自抚养孩子长大。她去商店工作，因为那里是一个

出色的组织者，成为一位备受认可的工会官员，非常高效，
被工党选中成为国会议员，然后一路晋升到最高职位。所以，背景故事是
一个政治人物的重要因素。职业生涯，嗯，其中一个要素，这位英俊的

年轻人其实是我，50年前，嗯，我在剑桥辩论社演讲，而且

非常非常高比例的领导政治家都是从

嗯，牛津、剑桥或格拉斯哥的辩论社起步的，实际上格拉斯哥可能比牛津和格拉斯哥都好，而且大多数顶尖的

苏格兰政治家都参加过辩论社，学习过那些

基本的辩论技巧，嗯，但总结一下，你知道为什么我们

选错了政治家，一位名叫伊莎贝尔·哈德曼的有趣女性，你知道，她分析了很多
进入英国政坛和工党的人的背景，

我认为一半的国会议员都是前研究人员、政治组织者、

全职地方政府议员，嗯，换句话说，他们中有一半人

从未有过一份正式工作，这其中也包括党内高层，比如党魁，他曾经是一位严肃的律师，

但其他许多人，嗯，如果我除了当政治家之外什么都没做过，抱歉，是党，那就没什么了不起的了，

所以，这就是为什么背景很重要，然后是其中之一在政治生活中，你必须做出的关键决定

显然是选择你站在哪一边。在英国，你知道，两百多年来只有三个政党

只有三个政党，而且还有无数次试图脱离

社会民主党，并在几年前改变了英国，但他们从未取得任何进展

所以，三个基本政党
嗯，我只是选了三个引语
你
可能还能找到更好的，但是
嗯，绝对君主制被弑君所缓和，这很好地描述了
保守党
我们在过去一年里目睹了两起弑君事件
嗯，鲍里斯·约翰逊和这个实际上被他们党暗杀的信任
嗯，还有前首相、工党领袖哈罗德·威尔逊

就像一辆驿马车，你飞驰而过，每个人都筋疲力尽或

晕船晕得厉害，没力气惹事；但如果你停下来，每个人都会下车争论

下一步该去哪里
我认为它概括了
嗯，政党的运作方式
然后是我的
党
嗯，但这已经是一百年前的评论了再次强调，做自由党人没有任何好处。

如今，做自由党人既不赚钱，也没有什么有利可图的职业发展机会。他指出，如果你只有

少数议员，那么你的职业发展机会就相当困难。

但是，做出选择其实并不简单。

因为虽然公众经常改变主意，我们有很多摇摆选民，但政客们却很少改变主意。温斯顿·丘吉尔是个例外。

他最初是保守党人，后来加入了

自由党，是为了抗议种族主义。实际上，那是在1904年，他反对种族主义和英国旨在阻止犹太人入境的《外国人法案》。

自由党人约翰是一位非常开明的激进部长，任职20年。但后来他又回到了保守党，你知道他后来成为战争领袖等等的故事。

所以，很少有人会改变党派，我是少数几个之一。

我曾经是工党成员，后来加入了小民主党，这个信托基金是一个

自由民主党人。我成了保守党人，但很少有人改变立场，而且我认为

正如丘吉尔本人所说，评级很简单，但改写需要

一定的创造力，除非我印象中唯一一个做到过的人……所以一旦你选择了一个

政党，你基本上就得在它里面待上五十年左右，或者在你职业生涯的任何阶段。

但是，你必须掌握一些基本技能，而我分三个阶段完成了这些

阶段……第一步，大多数人

不太关注，但它至关重要，那就是被某个政党接纳为候选人

去竞选议会席位，或者他们刚才说的你想进入的任何其他领域……这并不容易，你知道

了解政党机器，了解谁控制什么，谁制定

遴选规则，上诉程序……在很高的概率下，一个

非常有才华的政治家

内阁加上

一些出席但并非内阁成员的人

这是2010年的联合政府，你看中间是戴维·

卡梅伦和尼克·克莱格，他们是联合领导人，我在后面某个地方

但是你知道，如果你获得一个重要的内阁职位，比如

某个主要部门的国务大臣，矿业、商业、创新、技能、教育、社会保障、住房、地方政府、国防、外交

这是一个庞大的运作，你需要一套全新的技能

如何监督和激励大型组织

我的意思是，就我而言，我进入内阁时已经60岁了

60多岁，68岁，我以前从未负责过任何超过五六个人的团队

而第二天，我就负责一百万人[音乐]

弄清楚如何与他们沟通，如何激励他们，我有
五年的时间来学习，但很多内阁大臣只任职六个月

你知道，一个大技能，然后拥有一支忠诚的核心团队，也就是你身边的人

正是这些人让你能够成为一名高效的部长，这本身就是一门艺术

嗯，在现代英国政策中，关键人物当然是所谓的特别顾问，他们隶属于

公务员系统，但他们是政治人物，嗯，我认为“政治人物”这个词就像毒药一样

因为他们要么名声显赫，要么业务精湛，他们负责处理肮脏的政治工作，

帮助你提高效率，以及我所说的多层次任务处理，这要求很高，你
要应对议会、媒体、内阁同事、党内同事、地方党部，而且你

不断地在各方之间切换，沟通方式也不同，这与我略带讽刺地称之为的

错误管理截然不同，因为政治的很多方面都涉及犯错，对吧？

成功就是能够从一个失败走向另一个失败，而热情丝毫不减，这是丘吉尔说的

嗯，你知道，有时候像威廉姆斯先生，还有现在的政府，你犯了太多错误，以至于
这些错误变得显而易见，不得不把你踢出去，但优秀的政治家知道如何把责任推卸给

他们的同事或为他们工作的人或者他们的上级，嗯，有句俗语叫“寻找合适的时机掩盖坏消息”，嗯，学会如何化解重大

灾难，比如发起一项需要十年才能完成的调查。

嗯，然后我想说，归根结底，要学会杀人或被杀，我指的不是肉体上的杀戮，而是修辞上的杀戮。

嗯，一些最有效、最具破坏性的

政治话语，是那些仅凭一句话就摧毁对手的人。

嗯，我特别喜欢19世纪的一个例子，以色列人是这方面的高手，他面对的是一位自由派

领袖，罗素勋爵，嗯，他说，当我开始

理解反对派是如何让这位尊敬的绅士成为领袖时，我

开始理解古埃及人是如何崇拜昆虫的。

劳合·乔治是另一个例子，他是世纪末一位伟大的自由派领袖，在很多方面堪比丘吉尔，

但他是个残暴的人，嗯，据说，嗯，他从未说过他从未见过皮带，

除非他想……击中下方，有些人……当我查看我收到的语录集时，嗯，我只对其中一条感兴趣，

那是因为我对戈登·布朗发表了一条相当刻薄的评论，这在某种程度上尤其不幸，

因为他是我的朋友，而且我相当欣赏他，但无论如何，它算是

载入史册，因为它伤害了这位当时已经岌岌可危的首相。

总之，让我以这一点作为结尾，然后我们希望能够把它抛到其他问题上。政治的一个重要部分是

知道如何脱身，你知道，你不会得到一块金表，也不会成为荣誉教授，

你知道你的退路是什么，嗯，而且情况可能很糟糕。

嗯，让我们信任这里，如果失败和羞辱，你知道，她回来了，

五年后谁知道呢，但目前看来，她似乎将成为英国历史上最糟糕的首相，

第一个跌落谷底的首相，嗯，我们有鲍里斯·约翰逊，海丝特·拉维斯塔。有些政客

永远不会回去，嗯，他想回来，唐纳德·特朗普也想回来。

所以，嗯，意大利，嗯，抱歉，我忘了名字。

90多岁了还待在小屋里，你知道，有些人，嗯，就待在那里，想回来。

有些人从《政治家》杂志出来，那是戈登·布朗。

嗯，就各种问题提供很好的建议，你知道，触及他们的错误问题。

海外发展，英国宪政改革，嗯，还有上议院。

嗯，场地预订，然后英国上议院过去被视为

是让退休的老年政客体面地回归的好地方。

嗯，他们中的许多人都很老了。一位议员最近发表了相当残酷的评论。

有人说，上议院就像一个城市垃圾桶，我不是养老院。

闻起来有点尿骚味，实际上比那更糟，因为

他们开始把年轻人带进来。

那些大多是年轻人的政客，他们未必取得了什么成就。

或者更常见的情况是，这是对向政党捐款的回报。我是说，当我担任党魁时，我才真正了解了上议院的真正作用。

一位颇有名气的商人走过来对我说：“你看，我刚刚给了卡梅伦先生两百万英镑，但他没有给我封爵位。

你能做得更好吗？” 他说：“我不得不告诉他，很抱歉，你知道我没有爵位，而且我也不会给你。” 但实际上，六个月后，他可以从卡梅伦先生那里得到加薪。

卡梅伦先生又做了几份菜单，我想现在的行情是两到三份。

这本应是刑事犯罪，但谁知道呢。另一个蒙羞的公民权利是……

这位先生，他收取咨询费，嗯，就是帕特森。

嗯，他在我的政党赢得的补选中辞职了。你可能还记得那次小小的混乱。他实际上因为他的一次言论而出名。他曾是内阁大臣

他负责管理獾队，而獾队拒绝屈服，你知道吗？

它们是聪明的动物，于是他发表了一份抗议声明，抱怨

獾队不断改变规则。嗯，总之，他最终落得个耻辱的下场。

因为卡梅伦加入了“肥差列车”，成为了一名顾问，而格林·希尔先生，谢谢你，安东尼奥·布莱尔先生，我称他为“政治企业家”，他靠提供建议赚钱，但

他在政治事务上是一位受人尊敬的声音。我认为这两个类别之间有一些重叠。

最后，嗯，掌控着尊重。有些人英年早逝，但他们带着良好的声誉离开了政坛。

我在这里提到了约翰·史密斯，他经常被描述为

我们从未拥有过的“最伟大的首相”。我认识他，因为我曾

担任过他一段时间的特别顾问。嗯，最近我去度假的时候，

去了苏格兰西海岸附近的爱奥那岛，他被埋葬在那里。

在一个氛围非常独特的墓地。嗯，这两块碑上的铭文

嗯，我想最初是亚历山大·蒲柏说的，诚实的人是

上帝最崇高的杰作。嗯，如果你知道人们在你离开政坛时会这么说，我想你

也做不出比这更好的选择了，但这只是其中一条出路，恐怕其他的更糟。

这还不够吗？

非常感谢，这很有趣，也很有启发性，充满智慧，还有很多精彩的轶事。

如果你读这本书，你会发现很多精彩的引言。我以为我了解一两句政治名言，但

这里有很多我从未见过的。嗯，这一点以及其他许多因素，使得这本书值得推荐。我有两三个问题，这些问题都是受你的发言启发，因为

也基于我在政界的经验。其中一个问题是，你知道，你描述了一个成功的政治家需要哪些技能，

我想不出还有什么其他工作，
在一个上午或一个下午的时间里，我引用一下，

你必须具备……和一位下水道堵塞的选民聊天，嗯，你知道，我曾经是一名政治家，

我可以告诉你，这不是比喻。嗯，人们确实会来找你，有时候，你知道，如果你闲着没事干，嗯，你必须

去见那些养老金没发、文件丢失、假牙没及时送到或者下水道堵塞的人。然后，你去

议会发表讲话，去参加内阁会议，做出一些重要决定，或者你知道，

如果你在外交部门，你会飞到联合国会见外国政要。嗯，你知道，在大多数工作中，如果你……你知道，如果你一直只是个空壳，你知道，比如石油工程师，那需要一系列技能。

但如果把技能范围缩小到政治领域，那么技能的范围就非常广泛了。鉴于此，

在你多年的政治生涯中，你发现了什么？你知道，

如果你想成为一名成功的
政治家，你必须具备哪些技能？嗯，我不认为有一首诗能说明问题，我的意思是，就像我在船上解释的那样，

我认为当你身居高位时，你就会陷入我称之为多层级任务的困境，你刚才描述得非常清楚。

嗯，我的意思是，我曾经是一位相当成功的反对派政治家，在金融危机期间获得了一定的知名度。

但后来有一天，

我被告知要全权负责一个最大的部门，包括政府、博客、大学、所有学院、所有政府科学家，

嗯，还有邮递员，你知道，你的工作规模从根本上发生了变化。

我认为我想强调的一点是，

你实际上并不需要时间，而且我们已经陷入了这种循环，尤其是在英国，这种循环是政府快速更迭、部长快速更迭的模式。

嗯，我记得在工党政府时期，有一位非常能干的部长，

名叫约翰·里德博士，他是天之骄子，他做了很多事，他很优秀，所以布莱尔会把他从一个部门调到另一个部门。

每六个月换一个职位，却对部门的具体工作一无所知。所以，如果你想把工作做好，你需要时间。我想说的是，虽然我进入政坛很晚——我是55岁才成为国会议员，快70岁才成为国会议员——但实际上，利用这段时间发展事业、组建家庭、做其他事情，这会让你拥有更丰富的人生阅历。这种人生观比那些典型的职业政客要丰富得多。那些职业政客通常上过大学，为国会议员工作三年，竞选过一个毫无希望的席位，然后再次竞选，他们的技能和理解范围非常狭窄。所以，我不知道有什么建议，我只能告诉他要有耐心。随着时间的推移积累技能可能是最关键的，所以这是一条重要的建议：在成为政客之前，先拥有自己的生活。你知道，这确实能让你获得技能。我还要补充一点，这可能也为你提供了一条退出之路。因为如果你一生都只从事政治工作，那么当你想离开政坛时，你该怎么办？你去了，你没去过其他地方；而如果你在别处生活过，你可以回到那种生活，你的朋友会联系你等等。你刚才提到了牧师和水管工，我希望你能再详细说说这种区别。是的，我想伟大的领导者兼具两者特质。你知道，他们是鼓舞人心的演说家，但他们也能在凌晨三点坐在那里谈判法案，他们了解自己的职责等等。但许多伟大的政治家并非如此。你知道，有些人演说很棒，但谈判能力很差，他们不看那些红色的大方框，或者说，另一个国家的方框颜色不一样。有时候，你知道，水管工非常重要，但他们在任期结束后就不那么鼓舞人心了，应该赦免他们，也许他们会丢掉工作。至于1B，两者应该选择哪一个？你对此有什么看法？理想情况下，你应该两者兼备。很难想到很多两者兼备的例子。我想在某种程度上，托尼·布莱尔是的。

是的，他……嗯，他不是一个优秀的审计员，但他，尤其是在电视上，精通沟通的艺术。

他善于表达同理心，而且非常擅长用词，语调也恰到好处。

同时，他也是一个非常优秀的操纵者，懂得如何管理他人，

密切关注细节。你知道，他的声誉被一个重大的错误毁了，那就是伊拉克战争。但如果不是因为那场战争，我们本会把他视为一位伟大的政治家。
是的，我想美国也有几个这样的人，比如比尔·克林顿。我有点像他那样，对吧？是的，他非常擅长政策，对每一个细节都了如指掌。

但你知道，如果你把他和其他一群政治家放在一个房间里，他肯定能应付自如。
是的，克林顿和奥巴马都是如此。但实际上，
奥巴马很聪明，但奥巴马并不完全聪明，事实上，他因为冷漠而受到攻击。

是的，没错。嗯，我还有几个想法。

我希望你能进一步推测一下为什么……政客们如此令人厌恶，当然，这是事实。

但他们选择了一些可以减轻这种厌恶的因素。

我想听听你的想法。首先，你知道，在你展示的名单中，你列出了内阁成员，然后是政客，可能指的是议员。

在英国，政客指的是议员。

还有其他一些政客，比如市长。是的，我认为这在世界各地的大多数调查中都是事实。我的意思是，

人们不一定喜欢议员，因为当人们抨击那些与选民对话的人时，这令人震惊。

然而，市长受到的待遇截然不同，因为他们的行动。

比如，我们做事，你知道，他们疏通了你的下水道。回到你的例子，这其中可能有什么线索吗？

我的意思是，也许政客或被认为是实干家的人不太招人恨，这是其中一个想法。另一个想法是，你知道，
每隔几年……在每个国家，包括我们这个国家，你知道，都出现了一场反对所谓政治建制派的革命。你知道，人们说，把他们都赶下台，让他们全部下台，把他们都送回家。当然，不同的政策上台后，五年之内，人们的感觉又完全一样。这或许简单地表明，掌权的人都很糟糕，或者，这或许只是淡化了选民非常失望的事实，因为他们希望在政客身上找到一些东西，而这些东西你不可能找到。因为不可避免地，当你有很多问题，并且承诺解决所有问题时，你最终只能解决其中一小部分。所以，你知道，所有的政治都令人失望，你不会失望的。有些人，你知道，乔治·鲁尔曾经说过，当他在缅甸当帝国警察时，他只

我一生中只有一次重要到足以被很多人憎恨，我想这可以类比于政治。

你知道，我一生中只有一次重要到足以让很多人失望，那就是

一个政客，你在一个大平台上当选，你建了25座房子，你知道，还有幸运的3座

嗯，所以，你知道，我们只能这样吗？呃，我们的政客

责怪他们，或者也许我们的选民会责怪那些钱

嗯，人们赌上了自己的利益，但是，让我看看你的部分

我认为，地方的大局实际上相当

重要，而且它很重要，原因有很多，嗯，我的意思是，我谈到了政客

当然，如果你在
印度、德国或美国，联邦级别的政客非常非常

重要，嗯，在英国，嗯，不是这样，所以他们可以说商业上没有

自治权，无论计划是什么，计划是中央集权国家，但我想，如果你是曼彻斯特市长，

嗯，你可能拥有和内阁大臣一样的权力

嗯，如果你在一个村庄，是的，甚至加速发展，甚至成为一种村庄

呃，教区委员会，你知道，如果你在争论关于当地停车之类的非常地方性的问题，你知道，地方政治可以非常非常地方化，而参与的人很重要

所以我有点懒，只谈论一个层面，我不认为有任何证据表明地方议员，例如地方政府，比国际政治家更值得信任，如果他们真的更值得信任，他们会感到惊讶，但也许

或者死亡，实干家，对吧，是的，是的，但我认为国家和地方的运作方式有所不同，因为我认为我们已经意识到的一件事是，政治家作为一个群体不受欢迎和不信任，但作为个体则不然，对吧？这一点让我印象深刻，

因为我以前很害怕挨家挨户敲门，

然后说，你知道，我有一个很好的借口，围绕着你们的候选人或你们的议员，你们会投票给我吗？我做过

有很多可怕的事情要做，但我从报纸上读到，你知道，政治家

是我不信任ATM，所以我以为这会很糟糕，但当我开始挨家挨户拜访时，我感到很惊讶。很高兴见到你，我们可能以前从未见过你，你来看我真是太让我惊讶了，这太棒了，还有各种各样的

关于我们优秀的当地议员的引言，呃，我当时觉得自己很特别，也很

聪明，但后来我的所有同事都说他们也有同样的经历，嗯，我想事情是这样的，当

你与一位对你的生活产生影响的政治人物建立联系时，无论矿工

你都可以相信，你知道，总体而言，这

很多人在某些事情上做了不光彩的事情，嗯，抱歉，最后一点是他们

嗯，有人记得吗？肯定有人在听
嗯，好吧，我会记得的，我会记得的，我会记得的

我肯定还有两个问题，嗯，第一个是对他刚才所说的话的反应

敲门拜访的实际经历是完全不同的，

与人们告诉你的截然不同，就像我曾经是部长一样在金融危机期间，我特意让她每周五去拜访普通民众，敲他们的家门。我的顾问说：“你疯了，你知道，他们会朝你扔烂东西的。” 但从来没有人这么做过。这部分原因很简单，因为雅典政客出现在你家附近，人们会觉得“哦，这个人应该没那么糟糕吧”。他又不重要，他又不在某个重要的政府大楼里。他只是在当地市场、当地商店等等地方。这表明，在许多选民心中，理想的政客是那种走出街头、整天和民众握手的政客。问题是，如果你这样做，你就永远无法真正治理国家。所以，那些被认为与民众亲近的政客会赢得赞誉，获得更多选票。或者说，是公众，是政府，我们得到了人民应得的政府。是的，肯定有……这里面确实有几分道理，但当然，作为一名政治家，你不能想当然地认为，是的，你有点傲慢，这是一件值得居高临下对待的好事，所以你不能这么说。你我都是前政治家，所以我们要说，我们可以搜查这个没人听见的房间。嗯，我的意思是，我曾经在政府任职，你知道，我们做了一些非常不受欢迎但又必要的事情，我是说，围绕预算的那些棘手的事情。我碰巧被任命负责大学事务的部门，

因此，学费改革方案摆在了我的办公桌上，嗯，这让很多人讨厌它，

但它绝对不是，我的意思是，大学当时的情况是，必须做出艰难的决定，即使这意味着放弃在反对党时期做出的承诺。嗯，现在你知道，这位

校长正在讲话

嗯，我们周四将面临一些非常艰难的决定。

但我们知道，真正棘手的事情

嗯，不会是低谷。我的意思是，市政税重估就是一个很好的例子，每个政客都知道

这完全是一场灾难，地方政府的影响力太大了，这是因为他们没有收入来源

但要有一个合适的方案，这完全是基于凯伦·墨菲的房价，

但这样做会造成很多输家，所有输家都会

你知道，会非常愤怒，这样你就会失去强大的选民支持

所以在很多方面，我们确实面临着这样一个问题：公众想要的是直言不讳的政客

并且能够做难事的政客，但当他们这样做的时候，公众会愤怒和愤慨，

并投票反对他们。所以那些欧洲政策会说，我知道

我确切地知道我必须做什么，我只是不知道一旦我做了，如何才能再次当选
嗯，但是你知道，还有

另一方面，从另一个角度来看，那就是

如果你做一些不受欢迎的事情，就像你说的，你似乎脱离群众

你似乎不明白人们不喜欢这样做，然后你就会被投票否决，你会受到批评，但至少

我以前在媒体行业工作的人告诉我，每次你要说一些

不受欢迎的话时，你应该先说“我知道这不受欢迎”，这样至少你会被认为

理解选民不喜欢这样，而且我知道你不喜欢这个，但是

我还是要说，因为这是正确的做法，虽然这招并不总是奏效，但至少……还有两点，我们

可以和观众展开对话。在大多数国家或很多国家，

政客和

公务员之间的界限不像英国那么分明。你知道，更像是博客顾问或公务员，但

有时，有优势的人会成为政客，他们追求利润，这种情况更加复杂。国家并非铁板一块

区别在于，父母和政客们并不像韩国人那样善于观察

日常生活是怎样的呢？嗯，你是一位内阁部长，你手下有公务员，你知道任何

会议都会充满政治色彩，但政客们总是热衷于政治，而公务员们则不然，但我无法想象公务员们
会完全对政治保持沉默，因为政治是对话的一部分，这是一种工作惯例

我认为，在实践中使其奏效的是那些被称为社会顾问的人，我认为他们

是中间人，是公务员和政客、政治领导人之间的中间人

嗯，问题是，你设立的特别顾问越多，他们实际上就

你正在将公务员政治化，你知道，最近英国政坛的一个担忧是

你知道，像迈克尔·杰克逊这样的人，嗯，正在观察，所以越来越

把公务员政治化，我实际上认为英国的制度非常出色

嗯，你知道，我们总体上确实拥有一支非常高素质的公务员队伍

有时政治意见会流露出来，但我的经验是，你知道，

我曾管理过一个非常庞大的政府俱乐部五年，我的经验是，

高级公务员的正直和政治独立性水平在周六就下降了。我不知道他们是否在这里，所以我并不是说这是一个俱乐部，所以他们可能在这里。我们每年在埃及民主运动（EMDB）接受34年的培训，所以他们必须离开。但现在，

我认为，有了特别顾问，那些进行谈判的人，

是在政治领导人之间，我将加入两个政党的联盟。

嗯，我们在埃及的关键事件是，否则，公务员默认会承担政治任务。

我认为你需要一个缓冲来保护他们。

最后，但同样重要的是，我要在这里偏离和平的话题，但我忍不住要问这个问题。这是一个

拥有强大的实体机构、众多开明的公务员、以及大量
政府机构的国家，这些机构可以做我以前赖以谋生的事情，比如预算预测、预算影响评估等等。

怎么会这样呢？一位新上任的首相

一位新上任的财政大臣去吃晚饭，呃呃，然后在

用餐期间，想出了一个完全完整展开的迷你预算，并在24小时后宣布。

你知道，我想她会去的，剩下的就是历史了。在一个运转良好的国家，这怎么可能发生？

这简直太离谱了。

我不是说有什么政党伙伴，但英国的政治结构

存在严重缺陷，可以说在很多方面都腐朽了。

嗯，我的意思是，如果你真的有一个赢家通吃的政治

制度，这意味着小党派拥有巨大的权力，就像一个

真的，如果我同意，或者即使英国，如果我
会错过一些事情，你会在夏天遇到这种情况，

保守党有15万人。

政党正在选举

首相，而这15万人中有很多是英国独立党的支持者
他们渗透进来了，这和工党遇到的问题一样，当时他们推出了

盟约党候选人，我们得到的票数也差不多，大概在20万到50万之间，你知道的

政党内部的渗透。所以他最终没能进入政府，但如果他进入政府，就会出现同样的

灾难。所以问题源于

我们把权力过度集中在一个政党，由一位首相选举产生。

许多其他国家也这样做，我认为印度是唯一一个

另一个主要国家，美国，让我稍微提一下

关于一党制政府，文章第一部分有很多缺陷，但是

无论谁是唐宁街10号或白宫主人，无论你选择你最喜欢的权力种子，都有
国家机构为此事提供实际服务，委员会也为此服务。他们

负责此事的机构，无论谁掌权，都可以发表意见，查看

数据，进行一些预测，做所有我们在这里教学生做的事情，对吧？模拟、估计

回归，嗯，所有这些事情，想必都是在幕后进行的，但对我们来说至关重要，因为这些工作没有完成，问题可能就发生了。

无论电力系统如何，或者我遗漏了什么？嗯，我发现一个很有意思的解释

是，嗯，让我们相信，嗯，人们，她是一个列宁主义者，她是一个，大约有40个

列宁主义者，这是一场革命运动，实际上是一场革命运动，
它直接席卷了他们，他们把官员们带进了拖车，他们
没事，他们完全被忽视了，对吧？这里的机构是这样描述的

嗯，这是一场有组织的少数派夺取政权的革命性尝试，他们

想要强加他们的革命议程，我的意思是，这是右翼自由主义者对抗

马克思主义左派，但这就是我能找到的最好的类比。而且

这是一个非常简短的进化论……嗯，好吧，我很想开一些关于字母的玩笑，但我还是克制一下吧。

嗯，我发现一个很特别的例子，那个被财政部解雇的人，据说他是一个非常深思熟虑的人，而且人际关系也很好，却被称为学者先生，对吧？嗯，嗯，这是历史上的讽刺之一。

嗯，好吧，我说得太多了，我不会再谈论蔬菜了。嗯，我们把时间交给杰伊，对吧？

杰伊，你来问第一个问题。好的，非常感谢，非常感谢。

当然，我们也可以接受其他参与者的提问。

嗯，但我们先来听听主的几个问题。非常感谢安德烈斯，嗯，也感谢文斯。

文斯，感谢你的演讲，我很期待阅读你的书。嗯，我想问一个可能比较简短的问题，但与……有关。

我来自印度，我认为进入政界有很多障碍。刚开始

准备申请参选，所以，这里有家族政治问题，有

腐败问题，还有很多其他相关因素，对吧？您提到要理解

政治传教士，理解政党机制本身，这是关键的一课。所以，第一个

问题是，您能否再详细解释一下，或者谈谈与

各级政治上级意见不一致的情况？对吧？如果你的立场与

党内其他成员的立场略有不同，

或者完全不同，你该如何应对？这是第一个

问题。第二个问题与您在上一张幻灯片中提到的有关，即学习

要么杀人，要么被杀。这几乎意味着没有给幸存者或流程测试留下任何空间，对吧？
所以，
余地只有前进或向上，这几乎完全迎合了

某种类型的人，这是否必然导致我们

剥夺了自己接纳其他人的机会？那些可能成为优秀政治家或优秀政策制定者的人，

却因此没有机会竞选公职。所以，两个问题，谢谢。

嗯，放松一下，关于之前的计划，首先

当我们谈论政治腐败时，我们指的是什么？嗯，我在印度待了很长时间。

碰巧的是，嗯，人们谈论合作政治，但它们存在根本性的

问题，那就是在一个人口极其稠密的国家，比如印度，如何才能建立民主？

每个选区都有一百万居民。现在，竞选……嗯，作为一名印度选区的议员，你需要大量的资金，

否则你就无法四处奔走，无法获得宣传资料，无法组织集会等等。

你需要大量的资金，那么你从哪里获得这些钱呢？对吧？你必须筹集资金。

嗯，你无法从政府那里获得，嗯，很多穷人，所以你不可能从群众成员那里获得。

同情你的企业人士

那些通常想要得到回报的人

现在我们称之为腐败，但印度的很多腐败

是为了政治目的而筹集资金，而不是为了把钱存入

瑞士银行账户。我认为当我们谈论

腐败时，我们需要区分这两者。

所以，曾经有一位印度总理，纳拉辛哈·拉奥，他

被发现带着装满卢比的手提箱去办公室，

并被谴责为腐败的政客。但据我们所知，这完全与政党资金有关，与

他的个人破产无关。我认为关于

印度人以及许多其他国家的人，

对
禁止政治（我们这里没有）的一个非常有力的纠正是，穷人也会投票，而且他们认真对待

他们的投票。你可以看到，你知道，皮特为了《太阳报》排队一天。

他们会非常仔细地思考如何策略性地使用他们的动词，就像这里的现代人一样。

如果你是一个非常贫穷的人在一个贫穷的国家，你的选票是有意义的，
这是你一生中唯一一次真正能有所作为的机会。而在印度，我所处的

中产阶级，你知道，你知道，你为什么要费心去投票？你知道，在孟买东部，你只有百万分之一的选票。

所以结果可能……你知道，所以……
这很大程度上是由菲律宾的政治和利益决定的。

你知道，过去五到十年里发生了很多事，没有民主党，还有

印度人民党，我认为基本上，你知道，印度是一个

绝佳的例子，一个充满活力的民主国家，其他类似的国家也是如此，
我的职业生涯就是从为肯雅塔总统工作开始的。

而且，你又一次看到了同样的现象，

很多政治腐败，你知道，贫穷的

农民，他们实际上可以通过他们的能力来改变现状，他们非常非常重视

对印度民主的致敬，我喜欢这一点。

在背后，外国的

特征，你观察一个忠诚的人，或者只是纯粹的直觉。第三，这是一个假设性问题。

你认为这会成为竞选印度下一任总理的好例子吗？

你能再说一遍最后一个问题吗？因为我们不太确定。是的，这是一个假设性问题。你认为

沙希塔统治时期会成为竞选印度下一任总理的好例子吗？

但他们必须对印度政治发表意见，你可能想做，也可能不想做。

你可以告诉我们

他是一位来自喀拉拉邦的议员，

曾是美国副国务卿，但他最近在竞选国大党主席的选举中落败，

败给了名叫蒙哥马利的职业政客。所以你知道，

这可能是国大党内部的一次变革。

是的，你知道，这个王朝已经终结了，然后你知道，我见过

拉吉夫·甘地，你知道，这个人，他不是一个大人物，而且做得很好，我们正在崛起，对吧？

因为你知道，他们推行的国内政策太过激进了。

嗯但你知道，这个国家迫切需要一种世俗的反对派，

它要连贯一致，并且拥有一个简单易懂的社会民主纲领，

这正是国大党曾经拥有的。

第一个问题是如何找到值得信赖的人？

基本上，这就是政党发挥作用的地方。如果

我正在面试一位特别顾问，你知道，他们必须提供一些证据，证明他们为该党工作过，他们参与过补选，他们为其他议员工作过。

所以，你必须展现出值得信赖和乐于助人的精神。这与是否属于同一个政党关系不大，但这确实缩小了范围。

你知道，实践出真知。我的意思是，我曾经和很棒的人一起工作过，我有一个团队，他们在寨卡病毒防治工作了20年，对我绝对忠诚。

但我也有一两个人很糟糕。

这关乎人事管理，你会学到这些东西。

我我只是想问问你对马特·汉考克去丛林的看法，呃……

你觉得是因为你参加过《舞动奇迹》吗？所以我想知道，你觉得他这种举动是像他说的，为了使政客更有人情味，还是为了弥补他的一些问题？

马特·汉考克的问题在于，首先，他做得太过分了，他抛弃了棕榈树，

他本应是代表人民的，其次，他为此获得了巨额报酬，

这就是为什么他并不受人欢迎。

此外，他也不是桑斯通基督教的拥护者，但这又是另一个故事了。嗯，正如你所说，我也有点……

我自己也……我想我是唯一一个参加过《舞动奇迹》的内阁大臣，下来吧，嗨……
嗯，我今晚才参加了冬季节目的六个环节，和一位情绪化的舞者一起学习舞蹈，

这并没有影响我的工作，我拿到了报酬。

所以，我……嗯，对了，很多人都……包括我的党魁。他们非常不赞同

嗯，但我的大多数同事都非常赞同

基本上，我们参与了比赛。嗯，不，我没滑倒，但我从首席评委那里拿到了10分。先生，曝光度非常重要。政治，就在我旁边的那位女士，嗯，就是那位。好的，非常感谢您的演讲。嗯，看来当议员是一份极其艰难的工作，而且收入并不高。所以我想知道您为什么选择做这份工作？您认为您的大多数同事为什么会选择做这份工作？您认为大多数人鄙视议员是因为他们认为议员的动机不纯吗？嗯，人们常说，如果我们给政治家的报酬不仅仅是金钱，我们就能培养出更好的政治家。嗯，我其实并不认同这种说法。嗯，很多人，尤其是保守党的人，如果从事其他有商业背景的工作，他们的价值可能会更高。嗯，对于议会里的很多人来说，目前的薪水，我想是85000英镑，已经非常高了。你只是在做着一种轮换式的工作。学校老师或护士，我的意思是，这可是一笔巨款。

也没有任何证据表明，我没看到越来越少的人想成为政治家。每当某个主要政党出现稳固席位时，你知道，都会有几十个人申请，竞争非常激烈。但是，我认为你提出的观点，也就是关于风险回报，我举个例子，议员们，你知道，你承担着经济风险，你基本上是出于其他原因才参政的，可能是出于抱负，或者至少是为了做好事。但你认为金钱是次要的，我只是想重申我之前的观点，很多人花了很多钱试图成为一名成功的政治家，结果却一无所获。我的意思是，我不确定我是否应该举这个例子，因为我的家人中有一个非常有野心的亲戚，他看到我公开谈论性学，也做了同样的事情，但他属于不同的政党——工党，他去了……英格兰北部，呃
具体来说，是为了在一个他知道议员会在哪里当选的地方扎根，他全身心投入其中，让孩子们辍学，找了一份他并不特别喜欢的工作，呃，他是个慈父，你知道，他本来要成功当选的，呃，然后发生了一些事，他组织得不够好，猎人选拔会议，他现在真的失败了，他现在问自己，为什么，为什么我花了10年的时间做这件事，呃，所以你知道，担任政治职务是有代价的，有回报的，也有惩罚的，呃，如果他们能说，这不是仅仅支付费用就能解决的，如果他们能跟进，你会在联邦市场提到，在你成为汉密尔顿之前，你竞选了五次，所以你是怎么做到的？第一次运气不好，至少第三次就失败了，我明白了，你继续竞选，为什么？嗯，我觉得这听起来有点感伤，但是，呃，我认为很多事情都与支持我有关。你知道，我妻子多年来一直忍受着我奔波于政治竞选活动。我想她的想法是，我们不能浪费这一切，要坚持下去，直到成功。即使在她患上癌症，最终，我本可以就此放弃，但她坚持让我继续下去。所以我认为，在所有政治生涯中，真正重要且可行的事情之一就是与配偶的伙伴关系。事实上，我已经出版了另一本书，这本书有点特别，叫做《分裂十年中的伙伴关系与政治》，是我和我的第二任妻子合著的。我的第一任妻子去世了。这本书结合了我的叙述和她在联合执政时期所写的日记。后来，一些非企业兄弟指出，虽然我是傀儡，是前台人物，但在我的政治生涯中，她和我一样重要。我认为很多政治家都处于这种情况。很遗憾，我没有，也没有马特·汉考克和他那愚蠢的省份在国会大厦前发表的言论。你仔细想想，我妻子，我不确定我会选择第三名，更别说第五名了。嗯，但我确实给了她一本你的书，你和你妻子一起写的。嗯，我把话筒交给了后面那位先生。

你知道，他喜欢麦克风，而且在之前的几轮里，所以现在他让她反对政治。嗯，关于媒体的一个广泛问题：在我们的政治生涯之前和期间，我们应该如何应对媒体，尤其是在之前？我们是否应该现在就开始考虑10到15年后，我们该如何应对我们在Instagram和Facebook上的推文、照片？嗯，我不太重视社交媒体的兴起。

获得反馈，以便以一种让人们明白你在倾听他们的方式与他们交谈。

这是一种非常微妙的政治艺术。

我想我们有一个来自Zoom群组的问题，Karina，是吗？嗯，好的。

我要读几个问题。第一个问题来自Alexander Mafi，他是一位

健康政策硕士研究生，他问政治家可以从医生身上学到什么来赢得更多公众信任。

如果我再问一个问题……

嗯，你知道，这其实让我很惊讶，为什么医生会排在首位？

我的意思是，兰开夏郡有个医生，他杀害了400人，或者更多。

我们每周都会看到医院里出现灾难论者，孩子们死去，他们不应该被……

他们，或者那些残忍的医生。还有一些灾难，至少和

政治界的灾难一样糟糕。但我认为这是因为

你知道，医生、教师、大学教授，我们没有得到同样的正面报道。

但你知道，确实如此。一个有明确标准的完美，你知道它们

它们都是虚伪的目标。你花了五年时间学习，才达到现在的成就，通过考试，满足于一个永恒的机构，而政治并非如此。

当你进入议会或想成为候选人时，没有一本小册子可以指导你如何成为一名成功的政治家。

当你第一次去竞选议员时，没有人会告诉你该怎么做，对吧？正是缺乏

界限、规则、清晰度和资格

我认为这使其与传统的受信任职业有着根本的不同。

来自动物园的马里奥还有一个问题

是的，这是托比·钱伯斯的问题

他让你从政党的角度讨论，但选民对政党感到厌倦

我们的政党变得重要了吗？

我们的政党变得无关紧要了吗？嗯，政党是一种

组织舆论的方式我想不出其他办法我的意思是，你可以制定政策，这完全是个人化的。嗯，美国总统制确实包含一些这样的元素，而且特朗普实际上并不是共和党人，他只是一个个性鲜明的人，他想成为总统，所以这并不是一种由政党驱动的现象，因为美国政治高度党派化，以党派路线划分。嗯，我的意思是，正如我所说，英国的制度已经运行了200多年，经历了三次变革，任何试图成为独立人士或脱离政党的人都从未成功过。这是为什么呢？部分原因是，英国的制度会扼杀小型的脱离团体。

组建一个庞大的组织成本很高。而且，它正在建立一种历史认可和品牌认可。你知道，绝大多数公众对政治并不感兴趣，他们也没有对政党的兴趣或忠诚度，但他们会认同某个品牌，以及他们与保守党联系在一起的一两件事。在美国，这种认同感更加强烈。所以，我想不出还有什么其他更明智的方法来组织意见。围绕个人构建的组织架构会让你暴露在反复无常的行为之下。

那些自大狂不会下台，而他们却必须下台。嗯，是的，我想不出哪个成功的民主政体没有政党。政党很容易招人恨，但我们离不开它们。我想这是第三轮总结了，所以时间到了，但是我要利用“恐怖分子特权”问两个非常非常简短、非常尖锐的问题，而且这些问题与政策无关。

错误，而是关于个人经历：你个人政治生涯中最糟糕、最痛苦、最尴尬的时刻，以及最精彩、最激动人心的时刻。嗯，我想我经历过的最糟糕的时期是和鲁珀特·默里先生在一起时感到恐惧。你们有些人可能还记得，嗨，嗯，事情是这样的，我当时在进行每周一次的咨询会，人们可以来这里，没有上锁的房间。有几位年轻女士想见我，并告诉我她们是选民，尽管她们他们伪造了姓名和地址嗯，他们还在那里藏了麦克风嗯，我的意思是，他们让我开口说话了。当时我身处一个相当激动人心的境地，我们正经历着学费骚乱之类的，所以我的精神状态不太稳定我知道，我开始胡言乱语，说我做了什么，写了些不喜欢的东西，我还提到了鲁普先生和

谋杀，因为当时我必须决定是否将他那个肥胖的收购案提交给竞争分离机构，而我实际上已经这么做了，但是，嗯，我也胡言乱语了，这完全违反了部长行为准则，嗯，因为你本来就应该以准司法身份行事第二天，你知道，我的声音在国家广播电台播出了嗯，录音被公开了，我的行为完全不妥人们试图阻止我

政府认为我足够重要，所以才留了下来。嗯，但那是一段糟糕的时期，更糟糕的是，大约100名记者在我位于特威克纳姆的Suburban 70联排别墅外扎营。嗯，他们从早上六点一直拍到凌晨两点。嗯，那是一段节奏很快的时期，但你知道，我挺过来了。

嗯，这就是我人生中的高光时刻。嗯，再说一些高光时刻，听起来可能有点感伤，但当你真正帮助了一个人，如果你知道，你真的帮助了某人，嗯，也许你知道，如果不是你介入，这件事就不会发生，或者你解决了某人的庇护申请，所以他们没有被遣返回国，而是留了下来，你知道，是你做的，是你的介入促成了这件事，我从中得到了更大的回报。比在党代会上获得掌声更重要的事但是就政治而言，嗯，高光时刻，嗯，当我成为议员的时候非法，我们确实取得了非常巨大的成功，我们重新获得了一些我们的支持率，从联合政府结束的糟糕日子里恢复过来，在欧洲议会选举中，嗯，我们获得了高达20%左右的民意支持，这在欧洲议会选举中取得了创纪录的突破，但当然，我们在英国脱欧问题上输了，还有所有那些教皇的鞭笞，所以让我们把最后一点，关于主持人转向访问，让我们简单地认为，我们在政治中有很多希望，我认为文斯·凯布尔就是一个很好的例子，展现了我们波兰政治可以是什么样子，以及政治可以取得什么成就，所以请不要。
How to be a Politician: 2,000 Years of Good (and Bad) 

by Vince Cable (Author)  Dec 6 2022
https://www.amazon.ca/How-Politician-2000-Years-Advice/dp/1529149657

'What do you want to be a sailor for? There are greater storms in politics than you will ever find at sea. Piracy, broadsides, blood on the decks. You will find them all in politics.' David Lloyd George

'Unchallenged master of the self-inflicted wound.' Nicholas Soames on Boris Johnson, apropos his switch to campaigning for Brexit

Structured to follow the arc of a life in politics - from childhood aspirations and first attempts at getting elected, to navigating the back benches, ascending the greasy pole, dealing with detractors, facing crises, and finally escaping - this unique collection weaves together the wittiest, wisest and most acerbic political quotations from the last 2,000 years. Punctuated throughout by candid insights from Sir Vince Cable, How to Be a Politician is a timeless and entertaining education in the dark arts of politics.

How to be a Politician: In conversation with Sir Vince Cable

LSE School of Public Policy  2022年11月29日
In this event Sir Vince Cable discusses his new book, How to be a Politician: 2,000 Years of Good (and Bad) Advice, with Professor Andrés Velasco.

'Always forgive your enemies - but never forget their names.' JFK

'What do you want to be a sailor for? There are greater storms in politics than you will ever find at sea. Piracy, broadsides, blood on the decks. You will find them all in politics.' David Lloyd George

'Unchallenged master of the self-inflicted wound.' Nicholas Soames on Boris Johnson, apropos his switch to campaigning for Brexit

Structured to follow the arc of a life in politics - from childhood aspirations and first attempts at getting elected, to navigating the back benches, ascending the greasy pole, dealing with detractors, facing crises, and finally escaping - Punctuated throughout by candid insights from Sir Vince Cable How to Be a Politician weaves together the wittiest, wisest and most acerbic political quotations from the last 2,000 years. 
___________________________________________________
Speaker: 
Sir Vince Cable, Professor in Practice, LSE School of Public Policy

Chair: 
Professor Andrés Velasco, Dean, LSE School of Public Policy
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Professor Andrés Velasco
good evening everyone welcome to see a room and people on Zoom delighted to be chairing this event at which we have a privilege the privilege of Hosting oh they are not quite right but he's one of us but uh but even I get to host uh our friend and professor of practice at school of public policy sort of beans cable as you know we'll be presenting launching and speaking about his book how to be a politician 2 000 years of good parenthesis and bad advice um before joining the school of public policy and the other civil courts begins with an MP for cookingham in the southwest of London for 20 years he was a leader of the uh lib Dems in Parliament and he also serves as a member of a coalition cabinet so he has not only a long but a distinguished and influential career in politics and it's been fascinating lots of spp students who some of them confess it outright some of them don't are thinking about being a politician um I used to be a politician probably may I looked upon such hopes with a great deal of enthusiasm um I'm sure Vince will describe his book uh in detail um but uh let me just read two lines from
the opening blurb of the book so you get a taste of what it is that we're going to hear about today uh from Cradle to grave these Pages follow the article a life in politics from childhood signs of potential for running office getting elected forming a government ascending the greasy poll to the Pinnacle of leadership and a place on the world
stage dealing with mistakes the tractors criticism humiliation and failure and
finally escaping the political life all together although I might add I don't
think whatever it takes a political life together I believe me I have tried and I
have failed miserably so we're going to hand it over to uh for Vince Gable for
a presentation of the book then I'm going to take the chair's privilege and
ask a few questions and of course then we will open it up to a conversation both uh with people in the room and people over Zoom let me add before Arenas calls me that this is an spp uh public event and we're holding plenty of other public events and I'm going to
just mention them before I forget uh they're one on Wednesday the 16th on the
global trading system at 5 PM there's the lse Sudan Sudan University and Shanghai annual conference uh on Thursday the 17th from 10 a.m to 2 p.m there is an event on the social contract and the constitution in Chile uh on Wednesday the 23rd from 6 30 to 8 pm and
a big big event to which you are all in uh and invited I was going to say  invented they invited uh it is the annual lecture held by the spp and our guest to zany Minton Perros the editor-in-chief of The Economist who will be discussing a small topic this will be interested the future of liberalism um I hope there is a future for liberalism but I am very much looking forward to hearing what zani has to say so plenty of events uh and I hope to see you guys at one of those in addition to tonight's events so without further Ado pinch the floor is yours and thank you very much for writing the book and for bringing the book to us tonight yes well

Sir Vince Cable
thank you Anders um let me let me just say a little bit at the beginning about look it's not a major political philosophy not a major textbook it's um rather tongue-in-cheek I'm written a narrative about the nature of being a politician um but it's integrated with a big collection of quotations and I it's for fun as much as learning um I'm going to talk my way through this agenda trustworthiness why is it that politicians are held in such a low esteem my book opens with an introduction uh where I'm engaged in a conversation with a young person who says I want to be a politician to which my response is really and take it from there there's something about what politics involves the background and then the core of what I want to talk about is item six which is levels of skill that you need to become a candidate a representative a parliamentarian a minister a kind of escalating level of skill if you like and then before we forget getting out is um not straightforward but before I do that I just um I will put up some actually I think quite beautiful slides some of them and I haven't done them as 20 years in the House of Commons you don't make PowerPoint presentations in the House of Commons so I've relied very
heavily on the skills of asanganios over there who's done a wonderful job for me so thank him rather than me if you like the right the slide let me just start with what people think about us there was a textbook for politics students When I Was An undergraduate
many years ago and that one of the cortex was Bernard quick I don't know whether you still refer to it but there's no end of phrases that can be sung of politicians the whole art of politics this is fundamentals of the way democracy works and then Pericles who addresses the abstainers so basically because you don't take any interest in politics
doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you the politicians do stuff that affects you the British brexit referendum I think was a wonderful example of the politics
of selective abstention you know if they're if the voting turnout of the young had been the same as the voting center of the elderly it would have gone the other way probably so it's it politics it's engagement and then finally I've got a quote from the glass region comedian um anybody who expresses a desire to be a politician should be banned for life from ever becoming one which I think is very much the public mood and I start with Billy Connolly because he was starting his career as a uh comedian in
in Glasgow when I started my political career in Glasgow as a city politician
um helping to run the city in my in my twenties we we overlapped but the the
Billy Connolly view I think is perfectly captured in this chart
um this is a survey that was done in 23 countries I mean you can understand why
in Britain may people now have a rather jaundiced view of competitions but this is 23 countries everything from men
countries of Western Europe South America Africa even China I'm not quite sure to Chinese politician is but
um and it's an aggregate a vast online survey of how you trust different
professions and it's fairly predictable up at the top I mean you know doctors and engineers and scientists uh teachers
even the police and the Army you know we generally have a positive view about them and indeed the ordinary citizens
people are generally pretty positive about how they see their fellow citizens but then you go down to the negatives
and some pretty predictable ones Banker that could be journalists advertising
Executives but right at the bottom are politicians in all these countries
combine the view of politicians is strikingly negative
people make a bit of distinction between ministers who do things and politicians who grow up for votes but nonetheless
it's it's right at the bottom of the of the time but before going on to you know why that
is um just this this is a something you might want to look at the the eggplant
trust indicator it's how people trust government of course this isn't just
politicians government is also bureaucracy but it sort of ranks uh by
country um under some in a way fairly predictable you'd expect
authoritarian countries China Saudi Arabia the Emirates to be quite high up I mean why people are not going to
answer your survey by slugging up their government but um and anyway they're reasonably
efficient um slightly odd ones India is right up at
the top I mean India is a wonderful democracy but rather corrupt and turbulent but people value it trust it
extraordinary way um and Indonesia or another populist and the turbulent democracy
um and you've got Russia at the bottom which is perhaps not surprising I don't understand why Japan is so low I don't
know a great deal about Japan but always struck me has been a fairly well run uh
and honest place but maybe I'm wrong but we know the key point about this is to is look at the position of the main
Western democracies the United States the UK many European countries very low
down on the table the a majority of people do not trust their government
and the politicians who rule over them and that's the context in which uh we
have to think of a political career and these are some of the reasons why
um and then the very nature of politics is about compromise you you know you go into election you make promises
um and all of the quotes in my book the only people band that can play and pledge yourself the verses who believe it you
know in the real world you know you get into government uh you have to make difficult decisions you have to
backtrack you have to work with your stakeholders with the opposition and this particular picture here it's taken
in India um under particularly dodgy assortment
of individuals in the state of Bihar which was which is famous in India for
the poor quality of the politicians over half of the people in the state legislature
this is a state that has a population of Germany and France combined uh our Pros
you know they're involved in murder rape kidnapping but they've got into parliament in order to avoid prosecution
so it's not a particularly elevated place but um there they are forming a coalition
and it's a sort of the grubbiness of compromise the fact that politics
inherently involves stepping back from what you've campaigned on and then we
have standards this is the party gate which you may remember Boris Johnson his
colleagues um observing the covid restrictions with a drink after work
um and then populist cynicism um it's a bit dark that that's Donald
Trump and Nigel farage to particularly good examples of that approach to
politics um and Trump I think an example of something we see a lot of now which is
what I would call plutocratic populism uh and a good way of defining it is that
politics is getting the votes of the poor and money from the rich by promising to
protect the one from the other um it's you know the interests of the super rich and the poor at the same time
and on the right I've got pictures of our recently departed prime minister the
trust because doing is harder than saying you know she campaigned for four months in
television you probably saw some of it all the things that she was going to do if she became leader of the conservative
party and prime minister tried to put it into practice and we had an economic
collapse you know doing is harder than saying and of course this brings politics into even more distribute
um what I discuss in the book is this distinction between what I call priests
and plumbers you know priests some people are very good at making speeches they're very eloquent they have a way
with words they're marvelously charismatic I suppose Obama is probably
the best example we've had in recent years but the plumbers are the people who actually do stuff make things happen
difficult not many politicians are good at it probably the most famous plumber
in modern times was LBJ in America it's ought to be a thoroughly unpleasant man
terribly crude and nasty but he pushed through legislation Managed IT make
things happen I'm not sure we have many good plumbers in Britain but that was in the
government where it's Michael Gove uh one of the cabin ministers around
you know good at fixing things so all these things together you know the inability to deliver the cynicism of
the populace per standards the grubbiness of compromise all add
together to why you have this kind of popular cynicism and descent from a
political life even in democracies which are quite established
foreign let me go back to the issue of you know
how do you become a politician well I think the starting point is that background matters
um I've got on the left the Bush family in the United States that produced um two
presidents uh and before that senators and a wide variety of people the Bush
family you know about the Kennedys uh the Rockefellers before that that this
has become less common but you know there are political dynasties we found out in India you know everything from
um you know the Gandhi family I think five generations now and it does does happen uh the UK not so much but we had
one great Dynasty which is the Churchills which ended in 2019 when the
last of the Churchill family Nicholas soon stood down from Parliament but successive generations of people uh in
the same family um more important is education uh one of the features about the British
political system is I think something like seven percent of the population go to Independent Schools that it's in the
last Parliament I think the 27 skills
um within that um you've got an elite within an elite
um larger numbers of former British of prime ministers have been at Eaton including several recent ones uh Boris
Johnson and uh Cameron were the latest um and in addition to the elite schools
you have universities um very very high percentage of the
British Parliament are now University graduates and the over 80 I think uh and
a significant percentage of those from Oxford um it may be different next time if you
get a left-wing government less likely to be the case but that is that's common
and and these things are accentuated the further you get up uh when I served in
the cabinet and then 65 of my colleagues were in being a private school most of
them have been to Oxford Cambridge um very high percentage of being sweet so
you have that Elite phenomenon and one of the things it's led to is a
disappearing working class is very very few politicians in the UK and I think
this is probably true of other Western democracies very few of them have worked with their hands
and factories 20 years ago you'd still encounter Miners and Factory workers now
very very rare what is more we're getting a lot more women it was actually
quite rare when I became an MP very small minority we still haven't got 50 but we have you know significant number
of women prime ministers in Europe australasia um the importance of a political
background is having a back story I don't know anybody ever recognizes this uh woman here but that's Angela Rayner
who is the Deputy leader of the labor party in the UK uh Deputy to starmer
um and has even before she opens her mouth has a wonderful backstory she left
school at 15 to care for her mother and mental illness she was pregnant when she
left school brought up a single family I went to work in a shop because it was a
brilliant organizer became a recognized Trade union official very effective and
scooped up by the labor party as an MP and then shot to the top so backstory is
an important element of a you know political career um one one element this uh handsome
young man is me actually 50 years ago um speaking in the Cambridge Union and a
very very high percentage of leading politicians started life
um in the debating Union at Oxford or Cambridge or Glasgow which is actually probably better than both and most top
Scottish politicians went through their debating unions and learned those sort
of basic debating skills um but to summarize this you know why do we
get the wrong politicians that an interesting by woman called Isabel Hardman who you know breaks down the
background of a lot of people entering British politics and in the labor party
I think half of all MPS are former researchers political organizers
full-time local government councilors um in other words half of them have
never had a proper job and that includes people at the top of the party starter was a serious lawyer
but many of the other people uh if I've never done anything else but be a politician sorry party it's not much
so that's that's why background matters then one of the key decisions you have
to make in political life obviously is choosing what side you're on and in the UK you know we've had three parties over
200 years only three parties and numerous attempts that breakaways the
sdp and then change UK a few years ago but they never get anywhere under the
first person so three basic parties um I've just chosen three quotes you
could probably get better ones but um an absolute monarchy tempered by regicide it's good description the
conservative party we've seen two acts of regicide in the last year
um Boris Johnson and this trust that's been effectively assassinated by their
party um and Harold Wilson former prime minister leader of the labor party it's
like a stagecoach you rattle along at great speed everybody's too exhausted or
too seasick to cause trouble but if you stop everybody gets out and argues about
where to go next I think it captures the um the way the party function then my
party um but this was a comments a hundred years ago there's no benefits Again by
being a liberal today it's not profitable or regulative career and he's taking the point that if you only have a
small number of MPS and other chances of making a career are rather difficult but
but being making a choice um is actually not straightforward
um because although um the public frequently changed their mind we have lots of floating voters
um politicians don't there are very very few people who change party will Winston
Churchill was an exception he started Life as a conservative went to the
Liberals um in a protest of a racism actually this was 1904 objected to the racial
racialism and the British aliens actors designed to keep out Jewish people polling legislation John the Liberals
was a very enlightened radical Minister for 20 years but then went back to the conservances and you know the story of
War leader and so on um so not many people change I'm one of the
few I used to be labor and I changed to the little Democrats that this trust was
a liberal Democrat became a conservative but very few people changed and I think
as Churchill himself put it uh rating is straightforward but rewriting calls for
a certain amount of Ingenuity unless I think the only person I can recall who has ever done it so once you choose a
party you're pretty much settled in it for the 50 odd years or whatever potentially you have in a career
um but then you've got the basic skills that you've got to acquire and I just I've got I've done this in sort of three
stages um the first step which most people don't
pay too much attention to but it's absolutely fundamental which is actually getting adopted as a candidate somewhere
to fight a seat in Parliament or whatever they just said you're trying to get into uh not at all easy you know
understanding a party machine you know who controls what who sets the
rules for the selection the appeals process under a very high percentage a
very talented politicians just fall by the wayside because they don't get to
grips with their part of the machine they can't get themselves adopted as a candidate and understanding political
machines is the first step of your in your process of getting a doctor in and
then if you'll get adopted as a candidate fighter C you haven't got elected yet
um you're managing large teams of volunteers as an MP for example before I
became an MP I had to organize about 300 people to deliver leaflets every month
or two it sounds easy but actually you've got to get these people motivated the year after year after year give them
some hope you're going to win you're not paying them anything so um managing volunteers fundraising
Britain is not like the United States you don't have to pay less sons in primaries but
um being a candidate in a winnable seat is very very expensive somebody
estimated at the last election I think they traced a couple of Labor candidates who didn't
get in um they'd probably cost them about 100 100K you know sacrifice of salary
supporting local parties this kind of thing it is an expensive business
um self-promotion having a family that's willing to put up with you for years on end doing going away from the children
and uh spending your time knocking on the doors um and the two things I emphasize and
more than any other is just luck vast numbers of potential politicians
just fall by the wayside because they're in the wrong party in the wrong place at the wrong time
luck massively important and patience you know a willingness to stick with it
even when you've lost I mean I I got into Parliament at the fifth attempt after 30 years now that is a bit extreme
um but you know had I given up you know it would have just disappeared just a
little story behind this picture this is um me being a candidate with the then
party leader uh trying to whip up support in my local area but there is an
ugly side to that because um my local party had decided they wanted to get rid of me
um had just done very well in the 1992 election we were going to probably win
the next time and so suddenly a lot of Bright Young ambitious politicians saw a
Honeypot and headed towards it and they decided there are some of them that they
would try to evict the sitting candidate which is me and I wasn't doing very much my wife had cancer and I had a very
demanding job so I wasn't working very hard so I then had to do what politicians have to do you know resort
to a bit of bare knuckle stuff so one of my organizers organized I think 15
elderly ladies from the local Bingo Club paid their membership we hired a bus
um various other people from an old folks home who were dragged along they hadn't a clue what they were going to do except they hadn't been given some
instructions about how to vote X at the right time in the right place and in a in a mass leading of about 400
people I survived by two votes and had I lost I I would now probably be
a retired shell executive playing golf in malagas yeah that would never have
heard of me but I won and um but there was a happy ending generally because the the guy I defeated
is now leader of the party he got there by a different route um and the lady who organized my
underground activity we we managed to get murder baroness so it all very it's
all finished well um um this is the middle level right you're in Parliament you've become you've
actually won your election you're no longer a candidate but you've now got to develop a whole new set of skills
um you know I'm managing professional teams the people who work in your office in your constituency the people who
support you in Parliament researchers and press officers and so on
um at the same time you're doing a lot of what you could call social work if you're a conscientious MP you're
there once or twice a week meeting residents who've got blocked drains Asylum applications housing problems and
so on um multitasking you know you're doing National legislation local campaigning
looking after constituents um scrutinizing government in a very
complex role so a lot of prioritization
um I would stress networking you've got to you know you're building up a network of allies if you're going to push up to
the next stage you need supporters right and then speaking in Parliament I put
that bottom because actually although we like to romanticize parliamentary oratory
um the level of speaking in certainly our Parliament and probably true in others too is absolutely lamentable
um if you go there at 10 o'clock at night and listen to ambient speaking you'll find that most of them are you
know like they're not Grand oratory they are sort of reading from a speech which has been written for them by their
researcher and it's not very inspiring stuff and actually I've always heeded
the advice of Israeli that it's better people wonder why you don't speak than
why you do because the quality of a lot of what he said is often pretty yeah
and then the final stage this is cabinet that was the Coalition cabinet plus a
few people who were attending but not members of it um
and this was the coalition government 2010 and you see in the middle David
Cameron and Nick Clegg who were the joint leaders I'm somewhere at the back
um but you know require if if you you know get a serious cabinet job your
secretary of state for a major department mine business Innovation
skills education Social Security housing local government defense Foreign Affairs
he's a big big operations and you need a completely new set of skills you know
how do you oversee and motivate large organizations
I mean in my case I arrived in the cabin that I was already aged 60.
um 60 odd 68 and I'd never been in charge of any group of people larger
than about five or six and eight following day I was in charge of a million [Music]
um and working out how you communicate with them how you motivate them I had
five years to learn but a lot of cabinet ministers are only there for six months no
um you know a big skill and then having a core loyal team the people around you
who make it possible to Be an Effective Minister quite a quite an art
um the key people in certainly modern British policy so what are called special advisors they're embedded in the
civil service but they're political um I think Define was like like poison
as they're either famous or good at their jobs they do the dirty political work to to
help you be effective and what I call multi-level tasking we're really quite demanding you're
dealing with Parliament the media your own colleagues in the cabinet your party colleagues your local party and you're
constantly switching from one to the other and communicating in a different way then what I rather cynically call
mistake management because a lot of politics involves making mistakes right
and success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm that was Churchill
um you know sometimes like this man Williams and in the present government you make so many mistakes it just
becomes blindingly obvious and have to kick you out but good politicians know how to pass the blame
to their colleagues or the people who work for them or the people above them uh there's a an expression finding a
good time to bury bad news uh learning how to diffuse major
catastrophes by setting up an inquiry that then takes 10 years to complete
um and then I would say at the bottom learning to kill or be killed I don't mean physically but rhetoric
um and some of the most effective um and damaging
lines in politics are um people who destroyed their opponent just with a phrase
um one I particularly like from the 19th century was was Israeli who was a master of this and he was faced with a liberal
leader against him and Lord Russell uh and he said when I begin to
understand how the opposition made the right honorable gentleman its leader I
begin to understand how the ancient Egyptians as worshiped an insects and
Lloyd George was another it was great liberal lead at the end of the century really status of Churchill in many ways
but a brutal man um it was said um he never said he never saw a belt
without wanting to hit below it and and there were people that kind of when
I looked at the collection of quotes I was given um I I only married to one entry which
is because of a rather cruel comment I made about Gordon Brown which was particularly unfortunate in a way
because he was a friend and I rather admired him but anyway it sort of went
down in history as something that sort of wounded this uh prime minister who was then already somewhere on the ropes
anyway let me conclude with this and then we'll hopefully throw it over the other questions an important part of
politics is knowing how to get out of it you know you don't get a gold watch you don't become an Emeritus Professor you
know what's your exit um and it can be bad
um let's trusts here and if defeat and humiliation you know she made I was back
in five years time who knows but at the moment it looks as if she'll go down as Britain's worst prime minister on the
drop setting first prime minister um we've got Boris Johnson Hester Lavista there's some politicians who
will never go um he wants to come back so does Donald Trump
so there's um Italy um sorry I've forgotten the names
back in the cabin at age 90 plus you know some people um just hang around and want to come
back uh some people are coming out of the Statesman that's Gordon Brown
um gives good advice on issues and you know touching their fault issues
overseas development British constitutional change um and I put the House of Lords
um site reservations and then the British House of Lords used to be seen
as a good vehicle for retiring elderly politicians with some dignity
um and many of them are very elderly it was a rather cruel comment by an MP
recently have said it's a an urban lined Dustbin I'm not Market geriatric homes
smelling vaguely of urine it's actually worse than that because
they've started bringing in young people that mostly young people who are bag
carriers for politicians not achieved anything necessarily
um or more commonly it's a reward for giving money to a political party I mean I I discovered the true role of the
House of Lords when I was party leader and this rather famous businessman came up to me and he said look I've just
given two million pounds to Mr Cameron and he hasn't delivered the peerage can
you do any better he said I have to tell him I'm sorry you know I don't have any
peerages and I wouldn't give you one anyway but he could get his pay raise actually six months later from Mr
Cameron did a few more menus I think the going rate is two to three
it's supposed to be a criminal offense but you know who knows another civil right in disgrace there's
this um the gentleman who was collecting consultancy fees well then Patterson
um uh who resigned in the by-election which my party won you may remember that
little disruption he was he actually became famous for one of his pronouncements when he was a cabinet
minister he was in charge of pulling Badgers and the Badgers refused to be cold you
know they're smart animals and he he put out a sort of protest note complaining
that the Badgers were moving the goal posts um anyway he finished up in disgrace
um because as the Cameron joining the gravy train uh becoming a Consultants who have Mr Green Hill thank you Mr
Antonio Blair who I call the political entrepreneur who sells advice gets well paid for it but
is a respected voice on political Affairs there's a bit of overlap between these two categories I think and then
finally um controls the respect and some people die prematurely and they leave politics
with a good reputation I featured here John Smith who was often described as
the breast prime minister we never had I knew him because I had
as a special advisor for a while um and I went recently when I was on
holiday to a um the island of Iona which is off the west coast of Scotland where he's buried
in a very atmospheric graveyard um and the inscription on these two
um I think it's through Alexander Pope originally and an honest man is the
noblest work of God um and if you know people say that about when you left politics I guess you
cannot do any better than that but that's only one of the exit routes and I'm afraid the others are worse maybe
that's a few too
well thank you very much that was fun it was enlightening and had wisdom but also plenty of good anecdotes
and if you read the book you will find plenty of good quotes I I thought I knew uh a a quote or two of politics but then
a plethora here of course I had never come across um that among many other
things makes the book uh recommendable I have two or three questions which which are prompted by your remarks since
also by my experience in politics one is you know you describe the kinds of
skills that a successful politician needs and I can't think of any other job
where in the course of one morning or one afternoon and I'm quoting here you
have to have a chat with a constituent whose drain is blocked um you know having been a politician I
can tell you that's not a metaphor uh people do approach you and sometimes you know if you're sitting empty uh you have
to have meetings with people whose pensions are not paid whose paperwork was lost who's you know Dentures did not
arrive in time or whose drains are blocked and from that you go to
Parliament and you make a speech where you go to a cabinet meeting and you take some important decisions or you know
you're in foreign affairs you fly up to the U.N and you meet foreign dignitaries um
so you know in most jobs if you you know if you'd remain a shell and you know been an oil engineer that requires a set
of skills but if a fairly Narrows our skills in politics the range of skills is incredibly broad given that what what
did you find in your in your years in politics that was you know the the
cinema the the skills that you must have if you're going to be a successful
politician um I don't think there is a single poem I mean as I explained on the boat I
think when you're at top level you are in this business of what I call multi-level tasking which you just
described very well um I mean I I have been uh you know
reasonably successful opposition politician achieve a certain amount of famous
notoriety during the financial crisis but then one day
um I was told I was totally in charge of one of the biggest departments the
government blog universities all colleges all government scientists
um called postmen you know you have your fundamentally
changing your scale I think one of the things I would argue is is that you
don't need time actually and we've got into this certainly in the UK that this
kind of cycle of rapidly changing governments rapidly changing ministers
right um I remember under the labor government there was a very competent Minister
called Dr John Reed uh who was one of Nature's plums he did
things he was good so Blair would move him from one Department to another every six months without
mastering any of the detail of what the department did but
um so if you're going to do the job properly you know you do need time I I
would argue that although I came into politics very late I mean I became an MP
when I was 55. and almost 70 before I became a cameras
is that actually using that time to develop a career have a family do
different things you know you require sort of it's a way of looking at the world which
is much richer than if you were a professional politician typically who's
gone to University go and worked for an MP for three years
stood as a hopeless seat and then stood again you've had a very narrower range of skill and understanding so so I don't
know if there's a single thing I would say tell him patients you know building up skills
over time is probably the crucial thing so that's one important bit of advice have a life before you become a
politician um you know it does give you skills I would add it probably gives you an exit
route because if you've only had a life of a politician if you want to leave politics where do you go you haven't
been anywhere else whereas if you've had a life elsewhere you can return to that life your friend who contact
etc etc you spoke of uh of priests and plumbers
um and I was hoping you could tell us a little bit more about that distinction yeah I suppose the great great leaders
are a bit of both um you know they're they're inspiring speakers uh but they can also sit there
at 3am and negotiate a bill and they know their briefs etc etc but many great politicians are not
um you know uh some are great speakers but but but terrible negotiators they don't read their big red boxes or
another country as well as a boxes are a different color um and sometimes you know the plumbers
are very necessary but they're not inspiring after a term or true and pardon them and maybe they lose their
jobs um and 1B both should one choose one of the
two um what is your what is your thinking on that well ideally you should
you shouldn't have both it's difficult to think of many examples of people who live I suppose in a way Tony Blair yeah
yeah who was um he wasn't a great auditor but he he particularly on television uh mastered the art of kind
of communicating empathy and a very good way with words sort of cadences that
that were eligible and but at the same time was a very good operator and knew
how to manage people to the close interest in detail and any you know his reputation was destroyed by
one big bad mistake which is the Iraq War but it had it not been for that we would be thinking of him as one of the
greats yeah they've got a few people I suppose in the U.S Bill Clinton I was a bit in that mode right yes very good
with policy new every last bit but you know if you put him in a room with a bunch of other politicians he could
certainly hold his own yes Clinton and Obama both but actually
Obama's brainy but Obama was not exactly he got attacked in fact for being aloof
yes exactly um I have a couple more thoughts one
I'm hoping to get you to speculate more on why it is in politicians are so reviled uh and of course they are that's
a fact of life but they're choose of attenuating circumstances uh on which
I'd like to get your your thoughts um one is not you know in in that in that uh in
that list that you showed you were members of cabinets and then your politicians meaning probably members of
parliament in in in in the British world but um you know the politicians who are
also other things like Mayors for instance yeah and I think it is a fact in most surveys across the world I mean
people don't necessarily like members of parliament because it's a talking shock when people destroy people who talk with
lines uh voters though however Mayors get a very different kind of uh reception because their proceed if it
was we do things you know they they unblock your drain to go back to your example is there maybe a a clue there I
mean maybe politicians or perceives doers will be hated less that's one thought the other thought is you know
every so many years in every country including this one um you know there's sort of a revolution against the perceived political
establishment you know people say uh you know kick them all out uh get them all
out of power send them all home and of course A different kind of policies and comes in and within five years people
feel exactly the same uh which maybe simple reveals are the people who come to power are all terrible or maybe
simply reduce the fact that voters very made because they they're hoping to find
in politicians something that you uh are not going to find because inevitably when you have lots of problems and you
promise to solve them all you're going to solve this it's a small subset of the problem so you know like all the
politicism is disappointing you're not disappointing there are times of people you know George rule once said that he was when he was an imperial policeman in
Burma that only once in my life was important enough to be hated by large numbers of people I suppose the analog
and politics is you know only once in my life was important enough to disappoint about large numbers of people that it
was a politician you're elected on a big platform you make 25 houses you know with lucky three
um so how you know yeah are we stuck with that uh our our politicians to
blame or maybe our voters blame the lots of coin actually
um people get the gamble to serve yourself but but let me check through your parts
I think that the the local bigger picture just actually is quite
important and it's important for several reasons um I mean I talked about politicians
rather Lose Yourself of course yeah if you're in
India or Germany or United States uh Federal level politicians are very very
important um in the UK um not so they could say a merchantly no
autonomy whatever where the plan is centralized state but I guess if you are the mayor of Manchester
um you have as much Authority as a cabinet minister probably
um and if you're in a village yeah more accelerated even being a kind of Village
uh Parish Council you know if you're arguing that very local issue about
local parking and whatever you know local politics can be very very local and the importance of the people who
participate so I was a bit lazy and just talking about one level I don't think there's any evidence that local councilors for
example the local government are more trusted than International politician they'll be surprised if they are but may
or Die the the doers right yes yeah but I think the national local
thing works in a different way because I think one of the things we've realized is that politicians are disliked and
distrusted as a class but not as individuals right and this this struck
me as personally because I I used to be terrified of going around knocking on
doors um and saying you know I have a good Escape around your candidate or your MP will you be voting for me I I've done
there's a terribly things to do but I've read in the papers you know politicians
are distrusted ATM so I thought this is going to be a terrible but I was amazed when I started going around wonderful to
see you we've never seen probably section before how amazed you've come to see me this is fantastic and with all
kind of quotes you know about our wonderful local mp uh and I thought I was being rather special and rather
clever but then all my colleagues said that you know the same experience um and I think what happens is that when
you've been identified with an individual politician who makes some difference in your life however Miner
you can trust that with the block you know the aggregate this uh
um massive people were doing unsavory on certainly things um sorry so the the last point was they
um did anybody remember somebody must have been listening
um okay well I I I will I will I will
remember I'm sure I have two more questions um the first a reaction to what he just
said it is absolutely true that the actual experience of knocking on doors
is different it's very different to what people tell you food will be like I was a minister in the middle of financial
crisis and I made her a point to go you know meet real people and knock on their doors every Friday and my advisor said
you're crazy you know they will they will throw rotten things at you know and nobody ever did um which is partially simply because the
fact that Athenian politician shows up in your neighborhood is viewed as oh this person can't be so bad you know
he's he's not important he's not in you know in some in some in some very important government building here he is
at the local market at the local shop Etc which suggests by the way that people have a you know the ideal
politician in many voters Minds is a politician who's you know out of the street Shake people's hands all day long
problem is if you do that you're never governing um so you know politicians who are viewed as close to
people get kudos they get more votes uh
or is it the public the government's you know and we get the government that people deserve yeah and and there must
be an element of Truth in that but of course as a politician you can't assume yeah you're a medium arrogant that's a
nice thing worth condescending so you you can't say it you and I are former politicians that's why we're going to
say we could search this room where nobody's listening um I mean I was in the government the
the you know where we did some very unpopular but necessary things I mean difficult things around the budget I
happen to be you know my choice but I was put in charge of the department that was responsible for universities and
therefore the tuition fee style was was on my desk um and it made us hate it by a lot of
people but it's absolutely don't I mean universities were going um tough decisions had to be made even
if it meant abandoning pledges that had been made in opposition um and right now you know the the
chancellor that's talking tough about um we're going to have some very difficult decisions to be made on
Thursday but we know that the the really hard things
um are not going to be down I mean they're good examples with a revaluation of council tax every politician knows
it's a complete disaster local government is being influential this is because they don't have a revenue in
place but to have a proper menu but it's Unique based property prices on Karen
Murphy prices but to do that would create a lot of losers and all the losers will
you know be outraged and so you lose the powerful constituency of support
um so in many ways we do have this problem that the public wants politicians who will tell it straight
and do difficult things but when they do they will be angry and outraged and the
votes against them so those European policies would say I know
exactly what I have to do I just don't know how to get reelected once I do um uh but but you know there is on the
other hand um from a separate reality which is
if you do something which is unpopular and you seem out of touch as you say you
don't seem to understand that people don't like it then you get voted down and you get criticized but but at least
what people that I used to work with media people told me that every time you're going to say something that is
unpopular you should preface your statement by saying I am aware that this is unpopular so at least you are viewed
as somebody who understands that the voters don't like it and I know that you're not going to like this however
I'm going to say this because it's the right thing it doesn't work all the time but at least um two more bits and we
will open it up to uh to a conversation with with the audience uh in most countries or in many countries there
isn't such a sharp distinction as there is in the UK between politicians and
civil servants you know it's more of a Blog um advisors or civil servants but
sometimes advantages become politicians they run profit it's much more fluid in this country it is not an iron-clad
distinction but multiple the parents and politicians are not Korean observant
what's it like on a daily basis well you're a cabinet minister and you've got this civil servants and you know any
meeting is going to be very political but the politicians are about to go high on politics the civil servants are not but I cannot imagine the Civil Service
are entirely silent on politics because they would be part of conversation it's a working practice
well I think what makes it work in practice are these people who are described as social advice I see those
are the middlemen the middleman between the Civil Service and the politician the political head
um and the problem is that the more special advisors you create they effectively
you're politicizing the Civil Service and you know one of the worries about British politics in recent deliverances
you know various people like Michael girls um watching so have more and more
politically about it civil service I actually rather I think the British system is excellent
um you know we do have in general a very high quality Civil Service
sometimes the political opinions comes through but my experience of you know
having run a very big government's club for five years is that the level of integrity and political Independence of
senior civil service was out Saturday I don't know they're not here so I'm not
saying it's a club so they could be we we trained 34 years each year in the emdb so they have to be outside but now
I think with the special advisors the people who have negotiation it's
between political heads I'll be in the Coalition between two parties
um our crucial events in Egypt is because otherwise um the civil servants are by default uh
doing political tasks I think you do need that buffer to protect them
and last but not least I'm going to go off peace here but I cannot resist I have to ask this question this is a
country with strong physical institutions with lots of you know enlightened civil servants with plenty
of government entities that can do the kind of thing that I used to do for living budget projections estimates of
the impact of a budget uh etc etc how can it be that a newly anointed prime
minister a newly anointed Chancellor go off have supper uh uh and in the course
of the meal come up with a mini budget that is completely and totally unfolded and which is then announced 24 hours
later and you know I think she goes the rest is history how could that possibly
happen in a well-run country well it's it's just well wrong
I'm not making out there's a party partner but the political structures are
in the UK highly defective you could say decayed in many ways
um I mean the fact that it if actually you have a winner's take or political
system means that the little league party has immense power smoking like a
truly have done if I was agreeing or even the UK If I
would miss things you've got a situation over the summer
where um the 150 000 people in the conservative party were choosing the
Prime Minister and very many of those 150 000 people were ukip supporters in
infiltrated and it was the same problem that um the labor party had when you had the
the Covenant ticket um we get roughly the same kind of numbers so 200 000 to 500 000 you know
that infiltration of a party so he never got into government but had he got into government you'd have had the same kind
of disaster so the problem stems from the fact that
we have excessive concentration in a single party elected on a first Pastor versus
there are many other countries which do the same I think India is the the only
other major country that has a United States let me put that in that a little bit
there are plenty of shortcomings associated with first part of the post with uh single party governments however
regardless of who happens to be a number 10 or in the White House pick your favorite uh seed of power there are
presumably State institutions physical service the council for this and they
Agency for that who regardless of who is running things can have a say get to look at the
numbers are consulted do some projection do all the things that we teach students here to do right simulations estimates
regressions uh um all the stuff that presumably is done
behind the scenes but which is essential to us that that was not done and that the problem might have happened
regardless of what the electrical system is well or am I missing something well one explanation which I find fascinating
is that um let's trust uh people she was a leninist she was a it was like 40
leninists it was a revolutionary push in effect
which simply swept aside they took officials in the trailer and they're
fine they're completely ignored right they the institutions here described it
um and it was a revolutionary bid for power by an organized minority uh who
wants it to impose their revolutionary agenda I mean it was from the right libertarian right brother versus the
Marxist left but it was that's just that's the best analogy I can find and
it was a very shortly Evolution um okay I am tempted to make uh all kinds of jokes about letters but I shall
refrain uh I did find it uh quite remarkable that the man who got fired from treasury who was supposed to be a
very thoughtful man and relationship was called Mr scholar right um uh and one of those I ironies of
History um all right I have spoken too much I will not say anything about vegetables and um we'll take it to Jay who's right
here you've got the floor for the first question okay thank you very much thank you very much
and of course we can take questions from uh people uh who are doing in
um but let's take a couple from the Lord thank you very much Andres uh and thank
you so Vince for for your presentation I look forward to reading your book uh so I want to ask probably a quick but link
to part question uh so I come from India and I think there are quite a few barriers to entry to politics with just
starting to get a ticket to run for office right so there's there's the dynastic politics issue there's
corruption and there are a whole bunch of other factors that tie into it right and you spoke about understanding the
political missionary and understanding the party mechanisms itself as as one of the key uh lessons uh so the first
question was could you please elaborate a little more or speak to having a difference of opinion with
your political superiors across various levels right so if you stand for something that looks slightly different
or looks entirely different to other members of your party how do you engage in and deal with that so that's that's
question one the the second question was ties to what you said with your last slide which was in relation to learning
to kill or be killed uh that almost speaks to not having any space for survivors or flow tests right so it's
the leeway is forward or up uh and that almost caters exclusively to a certain
kind of person and does that inherently result in US
denying ourselves the opportunity to have other people who might be good politicians or good policy makers who
have no chance of running for office as a consequence so two questions thank you yeah
um relaxed and previous plans about first
of all when we talk about political corruption what do we mean um when I spent a lot of time in India
as it happens um people talk about Co-op politics but there's they have fundamental
problems which is what happens how do you have a democracy in an extremely
populous country like India where every constituency has a million residents right now it's a
campaign um as an MP in an Indian constituency you need plus sums of money and
otherwise you can't get around you can't get the literature well the rallies this kind of thing you
need lots and lots of money so where do you get the money from right you've got to raise it from
um you can't get it from the government um a lot of poor people so you're not going to get it from Mass membership
a sympathetic business people who will usually want something in return right
now we call that corruption but a lot of corruption in India
is about raising money to do politics rather than raising money to put in a
Swiss bank account that I think when we talk about
corruption we need to make a bit of a distinction between those two
um so there was um an Indian Prime Minister he was narasima Rao who was
caught carrying suitcases full of rupees Family Services to an office and was
denounced as a corrupt politician but as far as we know it was entirely connected with party funding it had nothing to do
with his personal bankrupts and I think the other point about
um Indian names plus a lot of other countries um which is a very powerful corrective
to um ban politics which we don't have here is that poor people vote and they take
their voting seriously and you can see you know Pete queuing the Sun for a day
um and they think very carefully about how to use their verb tactically modern people here directly
um and if you're a very poor person in a poor country your vote has agency it's
the one time in your life when you can actually make a difference whereas in India the people who I'm
staying at the middle class you know under which you know why would you bother to vote you know you're one vote
in a million in Bombay East so that might turn out you know so so it is
written very much by the politics and the interests of Philippines
um you know things have happened in the last five or ten years with no D and the
BJP which I think basically you know India is a
wonderful example but a vibrant democracy that's other countries like that actually which is where I started
my professional by working for GMO Kenyatta senior um and and again you have the same
phenomena a lot of corruption with a lot of the political uh and you know poor
person farmers who actually can make a difference through their ability of taking very very serious in value the
boat tribute to Indian democracy I like that
uh in the back there foreign
characteristics you look in a loyal person or it's just pure gut feeling and thirdly it's a hypothetical question
would you say that would make a good ad to become the next PM for India
can you repeat the last the last one because we couldn't quite sure yeah it's a hypothetical question would you say
that shashita rule would make a good ad to the next to become the next PM for
India but they have to opine on Indian politics you may or may not want to do
you can give us
everything is a member of parliament from Kerala who's
a former under secretary in the U.S but he just recently lost the vote to become
the head of congress party to a career politician called Montgomery so you know
this could be thank you renewal in Congress in the Congress private
yes well it's you know the dynasty has died and then they you know I've met
Rajiv Gandhi and you know the guy that's not that's a big figure and doing well we're coming up right right
because you know they they pursue the domestic policy was too far
um but you know the country desperately needs a kind of secular opposition which
is coherent uh and it's got a you know simple Social Democratic platform which
is what the congress party used to have
um the first was how do you find trustworthy people
well you basically that's where political parties come in handy and if
I'm interviewing for uh a special advice you know they would have to give some
evidence that you know they've worked for the party they've been out in helping in by-elections they've worked
for other MPS so so you you've got to be drawn
um trustworth and assistant and it's hardly acquainted with being part of the same party but it it does narrow down
the pool and you you know you learn by doing I mean I've worked for wonderful I I had a
team of people in zika that who worked for me for 20 years were totally loyal
um but I had one or two other people who were you know Dreadful um
it's about personnel management you do learn these things
I was just wondering your opinion on um Matt Hancock going into the jungle uh uh
do you think it's like because you've been on Strictly so I was wanting to know do you think these kind of moves
are to humanize politicians as he says or it's to kind of redeem his problem the
problem with Matt Hancock was was too far first of all he abandoned palm and
he's supposed to be doing a job representative and the second the large sums of money
for doing so and that's why in addition he wasn't a popular figure
of Sunstone Christian but that's a different story um as you rightly said I I get a bit of
this myself and then I I think I was the only cabinet minister that has ever been on Strictly come downstairs but hi
um but I was only onto the winter show on tonight at six sections with the
emotional dancer to learn the routine um it didn't disrupt my work I was paid
so I I'll just be right but but yeah lots of people including my party leader were highly disapproving
um but most of my colleagues were very ending essentially to do
we are part of the competition uh no I just didn't slide but I got a 10 from
the head judge sir visibility is very uh important Politics
the woman right next to uh right there yes well I thank you very much for your presentation
um so it seems like being an MP is an incredibly difficult job and you're not necessarily getting a lot of money for
it so I was wondering why did you choose to do it why do you think most of your colleagues do it and do you think that
most people despise partition because they think that they're doing it for the wrong reasons
well um it's often said that we would get better politicians if we paid them
for more than money uh and I don't buy that actually um there are a lot of people
particularly I guess more in the conservative party who could be only a lot more doing other things that come
from a business background um but a lot a lot for a lot of people in Parliament the current salary which I
think is 85 000. is extraordinarily large you're just doing an
alternating being a school teacher or a nurse I mean it's a it's a fortune so
nor is there any evidence that I've seen that fewer and fewer people are trying
uh to become politicians Whenever there is a safe seat which comes out for one of the
major parties you know dozens and dozens of people are applying it's a very highly competitive process
um but I think what the point you make um which is about the risk reward
I'll give us the MPS may you know you are taking um you know a Financial Risk you're
basically going in for other reasons it may be ambition or at least to do good but but you are arguing you you do
believe that money is a secondary consideration and and I just reinforce
the point I made earlier um that a lot of people spend a lot of
money trying to become a electric politician and get nowhere I mean I'm
I'm not sure I should set this example because somebody in my family but I have a a very ambitious
um member of my family who seen that I've been in public sexology do the same but
he's a different party labor and he went to live in the North of England uh
specifically to put down roots in a scene he knew where the MP was going to
be returned the inside of any of them and devoted his life to it and took his
children out of school got a job he didn't particularly want uh and he was the doll father you know
he was he was going to get the scene um and then something happened wasn't as well
organized as he could be the hunter selection meeting and he was now really defeated and he's now asking himself why
why did I spend 10 years of my life doing this um so you know that there is a cost
there is a reward there is a penalty attached to being
um consumed political office and if they can talk it's not dealt with I think by just paying out fees if they can just
follow up on that you'll mentioned in your in federal Market you ran five times before you became an Hamilton so
what have you going you lose one's bad luck at least loot quiet third time I'll
get it you kept on going how come well I think it sounds a little bit sentimental
but uh I think a lot of bits have to do with a supportive
stats you know my wife had put up with me going off to political campaigning
for years um and I think she took the view well you know we're not going to waste all
that you know just keep going until it comes right um and even when she she had cancer and
eventually and I could have just struck down big unavailable but she insisted that I kept going
um so I think one of the on quality viable things in all
political careers actually is the partnership um with your with your spouse where that
is and I've actually I've produced another book which um is a bit of a leaf obligation which is called uh
partnership and politics in a divided decade which I did joined with my my
second wife my my first wife died uh and it's it is a combination of mine
narrative and her Diaries which she kept throughout the Coalition year some subsequently no Enterprise brothers are
making the point that although I was the figurehead the the front man she was
just as important as I was in terms of my political career and I think many many politicians
um are in that position others you know unfortunately don't have it and or their message up by Matt Hancock with his
stupid province in front of the CC do you think
twice my wife I'm not sure I would go for number three let alone five
um but I did give her a copy of your book when you do it you wrote with your wife uh um I had given the flow to the gentleman
in the back and he you know he loves the microphones and earlier round so uh now he's got her against politics uh a broad
question about media how should we be prepared to deal with media before and during our political career especially
before should we already kind of think about in 10 15 years about our tweets our pictures on Instagram and Facebook
how can we deal with that um
well I I don't attached too much importance to the rise of social media a lot of
politicians say that you know all the ills of today are caused by the fact that we no longer have
print press and we now have Facebook and Twitter and I I don't don't buy that at
all I mean it's it's basically just one of the additional skills you've got to gotta get and if you don't do it
um you know you're not going to succeed I think you know Trump was a loathsome
individual you you have to admire as a professional politician he's phenomenal
skill at using a restriction accounts yeah absolutely amazing skill and he
just he had this ability to use investing and short Snappy phrases to
build a whole political platform that was amazingly successful for a long time
so you know you've just got to learn to do it you can't complain about it I mean the one new negative element of the
social media in politics is the anonymity that he gives the political attack
under traditional you know parties and politics you know you have a lot of give
and take um badly knowledge you know public meeting and a good politician would
learn a good put down um but but you know if you're trolled on
a uh social media account you have no idea who's doing it they can be very
vicious and it's been a particular problem with women and peace
who are threatened with sexual assaults and violence and they've got no comeback
they don't know who's doing it uh a sort of simplistic answer is you know
gets onto Africa listening to the input in a way you can't do that you've got to
engage with it there is a piece of legislation going through Parliament at the moment governing contents on social
media that hopefully will deal with some of that but that's the one downside
you spoke Donald Trump in the past tense I very much hope you're right
um we have um we've been focusing on that side of the room so I'm going to move over to this room
um right there your two guys are sitting next to each other you can ask two questions for the price of one as long as you keep them
brief yes both of you that's right yeah yeah
um he's one of the first okay guys
um you've also had a very successful career and that you have any regrets um of going into politics
and I hand over the microphone to your neighbor there Hi um so I just had a question about uh
legitimacy because obviously I would be interested in becoming a plumber in the
future uh you know and um as we can see
yeah so as we can see background matters which implies social reproduction and
kind of nepotism so there's a lack of empathy towards the whole population I was wondering how do you make sure that
you keep this type of empathy and I know that you like delegate and have people who advise you Etc so how do you choose
them how do you know that the knowledge that you're using is actually like legitimate and yeah just about
representation and you know actually helping everyone and not just one social
group they're the first again sorry that's my uh the first question again I don't just
age regrets yeah no I I don't and I and I'm glad in
retrospect that I did it the way around that I did because I was able to bring up a family and reach my kids and you
know a lot of my colleagues were younger didn't you know they just missed that stage of life so I I don't regret the
um where I did it um I'd made mistakes and turned into sex you know you do
um it's partly why I put the item on the board about managing mistakes as long as the team asks of government but I have
an idea I did some really bad things for sure um in a hurry Under Pressure uh you you
can make bad mistakes I I think you know going back to economic policy at the
moment the one big mistake I made in government was I had
argued from the outset that government during the austerity should not be
cutting public investment and had an ongoing argument with Osborne about it but I lost the alley and I probably
should have resigned or to the stand on it but I you know I took the view well
nobody will understand the argument just keep on doing what I'm doing but but you
do realize in retrospect that you know you haven't made mistakes but you know
politics is marriage remember moving on and the The Wider point about how do you
maintain empathy was that right um it's terribly difficult I mean but
it's interesting when you look at the current lineup of political leaders in the UK
um one thing that strikes me as a fellow politician not a recent one it was the
way in which which the chancellor hunts has that ability to empathize through
television the sort of reasonable guy I mean actually it's very privileged I
mean he was head boy of a top private school a son of an admiral but actually
comes across a somehow mastered that art have been able to empathize with the
audience and sound reasonable and sympathetic um I'd say that the new prime minister
probably doesn't have that somehow but but maybe Andy unfair and Trust didn't
have it at all so it's partly built into your
personality but it's just something learns I think but the ability to listen to people to
get feedback to talk to people in a way that that they understand you're
listening to them it's it's a it's a very subtle political art
I think we have a question from the zoom group Karina is that um yes okay
I'm gonna I'm gonna read the couple questions um one it's a from Alexander Mafi a
master's student in health policy that he asked what politicians can learn from
doctors to Garner more public Trust and if I make another question
well I mean you know and it amazes me actually why are doctors top of the list
I mean you had that doctor in Lancashire who murdered 400 people or something
we're here every week of catastrophists in hospitals and children dying they mustn't Encompass
them or cruel doctors and there's a little disasters which is a at least as bad as
the disasters in the politics profession but I think it's because
um you know doctors teachers University professors we don't get the same kind of good press
but it is you know it is a defined perfection with defined standards you know they
they're all hypocratic goals the idea that you've spent five years studying to
get where you are past exams satisfied a Perpetual body and politics doesn't have
that there is no when you when you're going through Parliament or want to
become a candidate there's no booklet you can get Cody Lively on a good successful politician when I when you go
to become an MP for the first time there's nobody telling you what to do right it's it's that there's that lack
of boundaries rules Clarity qualification
which I think makes it has been fundamentally different from um one of the traditional trusted
professions one more question from the um from the zoo Mario
yeah right so this is from Toby Chambers
um he asked you discuss from a party perspective but voters are dissoluted with political parties
uh are we political parties become our political parties becoming relevant
our political parties becoming irrelevant well political parties are a way of
organizing opinion um
I can't see any other way I mean you could you can have policies it is totally personalized
um Can the American presidential system has elements of that and then Trump wasn't really a republican he was just
an emphasized personality he wanted to become president so that wasn't a kind of party driven phenomenon because
American politics is highly partisan on party lines
um I mean the British system has operated as I said with three passes over 200 years and anybody trying to
become an independent or a breakaway factual never ever succeeds now why is that
um it's partly um the way that the first particular system widows out small uh Breakaway
groups um it's the the cost getting a critical massive organization
um and it's building up a sort of history of recognition brand recognition
um you know the vast majority of the public are not certainly interested in politics and they don't have a beep uh
interesting or commitment to political parties but they they will identify with
a brand and one or two things that they associate with the land party the Tory
party in the in America in a more intense way so I I can't think of any other sensible way in which you would
organize opinions certainly buildings around personalities will leave you exposed to highly capricious behavior
megalomaniacs and will not leave office and they're required to
um yeah I can't think of a successful democracy that doesn't have
parties are very easy to hate but we can't do without them I think it's the third summary so we're out of time but
I'm going to use terrorist privilege two very very short very very pointed questions and these are not about policy
mistakes they're about personal experiences worst most painful most embarrassing
moment and best most exhilarating moment in your personal political career gosh
um well I think the worst period I had was I petrified with Mr Rupert Murray
some of you may remember but hi um what happened was that I was having my weekly
advice surgery which is where people come without locked rooms and there's a
couple of young women who wanted to see me and told me that they were
constituents though they were they'd forged their names and address
um and they'd had hidden microphones uh tucked down there for them
um I mean they got me talking now I was in a generally exciting scene we were
having Riots of tuition fees and stuff so I wasn't in a very stable mind uh I
know it started sounding off about all the things that I was doing and writing dislike and I hit some Mr rupe and
murder because I was at that time having to make a decision as to whether to
refer his takeover obese guy be to the competition separators and I had
actually done it but um but I sounded off as well and this was strictly against the ministerial
code um because you're supposed to be in a quasi-judicial capacity anyway the
following day you know my voice was heard on National radio
um the tape recording had gone public and I was acting completely improperly
and people were trying keep me out of the government that I was thought to be sufficiently important
um to hang on but it was a terrible time and he was made worse by the fact that
about 100 journalists camping outside my Suburban 70 attached house in Twickenham
uh trying to take photographs from six o'clock in the morning till two o'clock in the morning
um and it was a pretty accelerated period but you know I lived through it and
um and that was that in terms of the the highs actually
um so some of the highs again it sounds like a bit emotionally sentimental but
when you've actually delivered for an individual a genuine if you you know
you've actually got somebody um perhaps you know which otherwise
wouldn't have happened if you hadn't intervened or you've sorted out somebody's Asylum case so
instead of being deported back to the conga or whatever they they stay you
know and you've done it it was your intervention that did it and I I got a bigger cake out of that kind of thing
than than getting a round of applause in a party meeting but but in terms of the
political um high points uh when I became Parts illegal we did have a very highly successful we've republiced some
of our popularity from the awful days of the end of the Coalition and in the
European elections um we got up to 20 odd percent public
opinion that got a record breakthrough in the European elections but then of course we lost the brexit argument and
all those popes turns lashes so let us exercise the last bit about host turning to access and let us simply think that there's a lot of hope that we
had in politics and I think sort of Vince cable is a very good example of our polish politics can be and what
politics can accomplish so please don't mean